HPV and Cancer link

[Soloist]

Or if I’m not clear enough, which is more likely to get cancer due to HPV:

1. This HPV unvaccinated person was a virgin, married a virgin, was faithful to each other all their life.
2. This HPV vaccinated person engaged in fornication with the average of 8-15 partners.

Wife: according to the dental hygiene student at Chemeketa who was working on me, number one. Although I think her teacher had a talk with her after that.

[RZehr]

You are sidestepping my questions here. I guess I’ll make my own assumptions as to why that is.

You are asking me to believe that if two virgins get married and stay loyal to each other, they are somehow at an elevated risk of cancer due to HVP because they didn’t get this vaccine? Really? Is that what you are saying in a nutshell?
Please spare me the government statistics that include all the fornicating public, because that isn’t what I’m asking about.

Or if I’m not clear enough, which is more likely to get cancer due to HPV:

1. This HPV unvaccinated person was a virgin, married a virgin, was faithful to each other all their life.
2. This HPV vaccinated person engaged in fornication with the average of 8-15 partners.

How many children do you have?

You are asking us to believe that every one of them will go through life completely celibate except for the person they marry just because you wish it? And that whatever spouses your children find will also have gone through life completely celibate and stay 100% faithful? Just because you wish it? And that none of them will ever be the victim of a sexual assault just because you wish it? And that none of them will ever be in close physical contact with someone carrying the virus? That is a whole lot of wishful thinking.

Let’s address the “wishful thinking” usage here. No, not just because I wish it. Rather because God commands it, and because I teach the children what God says, and they are surrounded by examples of people who are actually succeeding in doing just that. So for these children, this is actually the norm. I’ll repeat, no one that I know of has ever gotten cervical cancer, or HPV, or any other STD’s. It turns out not to be a high risk at all if you live a certain way.

And do you think that just because a child got a vaccine at age 10 that it will make them more promiscuous years later? Seriously?

No, I don’t. What I will propose, is that the parents of the 10 year old have very low expectations that their child will avoid sexual activity until marriage as will its spouse. I propose that this is the #1 reason parents give this vaccine. They don’t want their child to get HPV and they have little confidence that their child won’t be sexually active.

And if the parents themselves don’t believe that their child won’t be sexually active, who am I to argue otherwise? Parents play a big role in it, with their training.
But instead of proper training, parents are just using this to protect their children from HPV instead of teaching and protecting them in the better way.

I really don't get it. Its is the only vaccine for cancer that we have of any kind. There is no other. And people don't want it for their kids for the prudish reason that there is a connection to sex?

I’ll repeat, if there was an actual risk involved here of getting HPV in some other way, I would consider it.

And if all your wishing doesn't work out and the worst happens. What is your "because..." answer going to be?

First, again, it’s not just wishing. But if my child gets HPV because of living a promiscuous life, well that sort of paying the price, isn’t it? Sort of like having a accident because of reckless driving.

Most HPV cases either go away on their own, or at least don’t lead to cancer. Similar to how not every fender bender is fatal.

[Ken]

You are sidestepping my questions here. I guess I’ll make my own assumptions as to why that is.

You are asking me to believe that if two virgins get married and stay loyal to each other, they are somehow at an elevated risk of cancer due to HVP because they didn’t get this vaccine? Really? Is that what you are saying in a nutshell?
Please spare me the government statistics that include all the fornicating public, because that isn’t what I’m asking about.

Or if I’m not clear enough, which is more likely to get cancer due to HPV:

1. This HPV unvaccinated person was a virgin, married a virgin, was faithful to each other all their life.
2. This HPV vaccinated person engaged in fornication with the average of 8-15 partners.

How many children do you have?

You are asking us to believe that every one of them will go through life completely celibate except for the person they marry just because you wish it? And that whatever spouses your children find will also have gone through life completely celibate and stay 100% faithful? Just because you wish it? And that none of them will ever be the victim of a sexual assault just because you wish it? And that none of them will ever be in close physical contact with someone carrying the virus? That is a whole lot of wishful thinking.

Let’s address the “wishful thinking” usage here. No, not just because I wish it. Rather because God commands it, and because I teach the children what God says, and they are surrounded by examples of people who are actually succeeding in doing just that. So for these children, this is actually the norm. I’ll repeat, no one that I know of has ever gotten cervical cancer, or HPV, or any other STD’s. It turns out not to be a high risk at all if you live a certain way.

And do you think that just because a child got a vaccine at age 10 that it will make them more promiscuous years later? Seriously?

No, I don’t. What I will propose, is that the parents of the 10 year old have very low expectations that their child will avoid sexual activity until marriage as will its spouse. I propose that this is the #1 reason parents give this vaccine. They don’t want their child to get HPV and they have little confidence that their child won’t be sexually active.

And if the parents themselves don’t believe that their child won’t be sexually active, who am I to argue otherwise? Parents play a big role in it, with their training.
But instead of proper training, parents are just using this to protect their children from HPV instead of teaching and protecting them in the better way.

I really don't get it. Its is the only vaccine for cancer that we have of any kind. There is no other. And people don't want it for their kids for the prudish reason that there is a connection to sex?

I’ll repeat, if there was an actual risk involved here of getting HPV in some other way, I would consider it.

And if all your wishing doesn't work out and the worst happens. What is your "because..." answer going to be?

First, again, it’s not just wishing. But if my child gets HPV because of living a promiscuous life, well that sort of paying the price, isn’t it? Sort of like having a accident because of reckless driving.

Most HPV cases either go away on their own, or at least don’t lead to cancer. Similar to how not every fender bender is fatal.

You do you. It's a free country and this is not a mandatory vaccine of any kind.

For my own part, I will do just about anything to protect my children from present and future harm and that includes the very trivial step of getting them vaccinated against future deadly cancers during free well-child checks.

I hope that you and every other parent who choose not to vaccinate their children against HPV never faces the non-zero chance that one of their children will someday be dying of cancer. And then have to say to her or her family "We could have easily prevented all of this with a trivial vaccine when you were 10. But we chose not to because...."

And no, I don't think dying of cancer is "paying the price" for having sex or being sexually assaulted. That is a positively barbaric attitude straight from Leviticus or modern day Saudi Arabia where women were stoned or married off to their rapists. If there is a price to be paid, that really for God to decide, not us. Christianity is about forgiveness and redemption and Christ dying for our sins. And no, I don't think there is any sign that God uses earthly disease to punish the unjust and spare the just. That hasn't ever happened with any disease in history. He expects us to look out for each other and care for each other. Not leave each other to die of preventable diseases.

This isn't actually about the HPV which is a pretty trivial disease on its own. About 90% of cases are asymptomatic and symptomatic infections are pretty trivial. The vast majority of people don't even know they have it. If it was just HPV and nothing else then no one would probably have ever bothered to develop a vaccine. It is about preventing deadly cancers caused by the HPV virus that may not present until many years later.

[Josh]

God seems to have indeed instituted incurable STDs as a consequence of promiscuity. Herpes which is incurable and causes lifelong pain is a good example.

[temporal1]

Yep. This topic reflects what’s going on in the world.
Esp corraling everyone into one large group, exceptions “allowed,” (cough) - BARELY SO. Strong preference against.

Just think, another ripple effect from cheap-free birth control pills/devices, along with at will abortion - - -
not for married couples, alone, but vehemently available to every child, teen, unmarried - -

i mean, think of the PROFITS possible with
legal access, legal protections, AND gov funding to promote+deliver! CASH COW

Who cares what happens to the health, culture, destruction of families?? $$$$
Profits are never mentioned. It’s all about heartstrings.

It is a shame that humans tend to find the lowest common denominator whenever God’s design is sidestepped.
It just happens, “naturally,” dependable as the sun rising in the east.

i was young, but i remember when b.c. pills became available. (the words, abortion and divorce were taboo.)
b.c. pills were whispered about between adults, only, esp married adults.

the sales-pitch, to begin,
b.c. pills were only available to MARRIED women, prescribed by their doctors, paid out of pocket.
they were sold on the basis of “helping MARRIED couples plan their families” - FULL STOP.
this step was revolutionary. the intro.

in those days, i firmly believe, if those folks had any clue what would be unleashed due to those GOOD INTENTIONS,
those pills would have been banned. the idea of free distribution to every child-teen, unmarried, would have been unthinkable, unbearable. on the public dime?! - NO.

yet, here we are.
today’s presumption is that 11 year olds are sexually active, there’s no other way, you’re a stooge to suggest it.
linking marriage to monogamy is archaic.

^^in one lifetime.

HPV, HIV-AIDS, STDs, certain cancers, certain physical damage, are nearly 100% PREVENTABLE by God’s design.

Ship of Fools

Psalm 107:17
https://biblehub.com/psalms/107-17.htm

17Fools, in their rebellious ways, and through their iniquities, suffered affliction.

So. “What do we tell our children when” .. they suffer from the scourge that befell the world decades ago?
i tell mine, “i’m deeply sorry,” and, “return to scriptures, where real answers are found.”

[Ken]

God seems to have indeed instituted incurable STDs as a consequence of promiscuity. Herpes which is incurable and causes lifelong pain is a good example.

So you know God's will now?

Did he also bring us COVID to weed out foolish people who choose not to get vaccinated?

And heart disease to weed out people who foolishly consume too much red meat?

And leukemia to punish little children for....?

Go ahead and make the New Testament case that God uses disease as a tool to punish and kill people here on earth rather than judging them in the afterlife. That will make my wife's job easier. She can just blow off people who come into her clinic sick since it is all just God's will and who are we to intervene?

[Josh]

God seems to have indeed instituted incurable STDs as a consequence of promiscuity. Herpes which is incurable and causes lifelong pain is a good example.

So you know God's will now?

Did he also bring us COVID to weed out foolish people who choose not to get vaccinated?

God commands us not to commit fornication, adultery or sodomy.

God doesn’t command us to take Covid vaccines.

And heart disease to weed out people who foolishly consume too much red meat?

God explicitly permits us to eat beef.

And leukemia to punish little children for....?

Go ahead and make the New Testament case that God uses disease as a tool to punish and kill people here on earth rather than judging them in the afterlife. That will make my wife's job easier. She can just blow off people who come into her clinic sick since it is all just God's will and who are we to intervene?

God has, in his divine providence, seen fit to allow incurable; painful STDs that overwhelmingly only affect people who are promiscuous.

[Ken]

God seems to have indeed instituted incurable STDs as a consequence of promiscuity. Herpes which is incurable and causes lifelong pain is a good example.

So you know God's will now?

Did he also bring us COVID to weed out foolish people who choose not to get vaccinated?

God commands us not to commit fornication, adultery or sodomy.

God doesn’t command us to take Covid vaccines.

And heart disease to weed out people who foolishly consume too much red meat?

God explicitly permits us to eat beef.

And leukemia to punish little children for....?

Go ahead and make the New Testament case that God uses disease as a tool to punish and kill people here on earth rather than judging them in the afterlife. That will make my wife's job easier. She can just blow off people who come into her clinic sick since it is all just God's will and who are we to intervene?

God has, in his divine providence, seen fit to allow incurable; painful STDs that overwhelmingly only affect people who are promiscuous.

Only a small fraction of deadly diseases in this country are caused by STDs and all of those are easily preventable. Mostly it is HIV and HPV-caused cancers. Which are both easily preventable without requiring celibacy.

Curious how you think it is only those diseases that are due to "divine providence" and not the vast majority of other diseases that people die from.

And no, it isn't actually the sex that causes disease transmission. All infectious diseases have different degrees of infectiousness. Many diseases like COVID and measles are very highly infectious and you can get them simply by being in the same room as an infected person. But you can certainly get COVID or measles by sleeping with an infected person as well. Other diseases are far less infectious and require much closer physical contact. It is a spectrum, nothing more. And there is nothing particularly unique about diseases that require much closer physical contact in order to be transmitted. Leprosy is another disease that requires close physical contact to spread. What does Jesus teach about leprosy? You can catch it by being intimate with (kissing) another person.

What we actually do know is that Jesus commanded us to care for children as well as the sick. And to judge not lest we be judged. He didn't create deadly diseases to inflict earthly punishment on those of whom he disapproves. That notion is contrary to the fundamental principles of Christianity. What does your Bible say about earthly punishment/rewards versus heavenly punishment/rewards? The notion that God punishes people on earth for sex by unleashing deadly diseases is no more Biblical than the notion that God rewards the faithful by providing them with riches on earth (prosperity gospel). Both are aberrations of Jesus’ teachings.

[RZehr]

Do you forget what the S.T. in S.T.D.’s stand for?

[Ken]

Do you forget what the S.T. in S.T.D.’s stand for?

It just means that sex is the most common form of transmission. People can get HIV and HPV through other forms of close contact as well as sex. What are the protocols regarding sharp needles in hospitals and why do they exist? No sex involved there.

You and Josh seem to think that God is sending deadly diseases down to earth to provide earthly punishment for things of which you disapprove. Namely single people having sex. That idea is not only un-Biblical, it is contrary to the teachings of Jesus with respect to earthly punishment/rewards versus heavenly punishment/rewards.

Josh took it a step further in another thread where he argued that single people who have sex should also be punished by law. I guess in that case, God-given STDs weren't enough and he wants earthly laws to step in and pick up the slack?

People get sick and die for all manner of unhealthy behaviors. Conservative Anabaptists are not immune from that either. There is nothing Biblical about the notion that people who die of deadly preventable diseases are doing so as a result of some sort of earthly punishment designed by God. Whether we are talking about STDs or skin cancer from a life time of working in the field without adequate protection. Or any other preventable deadly disease.