Poll: Putin and Ukraine

[Ernie]

Vote and discuss:

[barnhart]

I think the invasion is about the concept of greater Russian, like the empire assembled by Peter the great. Putin wants it back.

[Szdfan]

I think the invasion is about the concept of greater Russian, like the empire assembled by Peter the great. Putin wants it back.

Absolutely. When Putin says that the Ukrainians and Russians are one people, he means that Ukraine doesn't exist. While the Soviet Union frequently repressed Ukrainian culture, it also acknowledged that Ukraine had a right to exist. Putin claims that Ukraine is a Soviet invention.

[Ken]

I think Putin would have invaded Ukraine, even if the Ukrainian government had allowed Russian speaking citizens to keep their language and culture.

Where did you get this question from?

You do realize that the current Ukrainian government is run by the native Russian speaker Zelensky and his governing party was swept into power by the Russian-speaking eastern half of Ukraine? Zelensky WAS the choice of Russian-speaking Ukrainians. The losing candidate, Petro Poroshenko was the Ukrainian-speaking candidate and drew his support from the Ukrainian-speaking western half of the country.

This is what the results of the 2019 election looked like geographically: The Russian-speaking eastern half of the country went overwhelmingly for Zelensky while the Ukrainian-speaking western half went for Poroshenko. If you can't read the text, green is Zelensky and pink is Poroshenko with the darker green representing greater support for Zelensky. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Ukra ... l_election




Compare that to this map of Russian versus Ukrainian native speakers and notice the similarity.




The notion that this war has anything at all to do with oppression of Russian-speaking citizens is laughable. This is how the international press described the race back in 2019, three years before the Russian invasion: https://www.france24.com/en/20190416-ru ... g-language

For Russian speakers in Ukraine, a candidate talking their language

In his startling run to become Ukraine's next president, comedian Volodymyr Zelensky has enjoyed a key advantage over his rivals: strong support from the country's Russian-speaking regions.

Despite vowing to keep Ukraine on a pro-Western course, Zelensky has polled particularly well in areas of the country where Russian speakers make up large parts of the population.

A native Russian speaker himself from the central city of Kryvyi Rig, Zelensky appears on track to deal an upset defeat to incumbent Petro Poroshenko in Sunday's second round of voting.

The political novice will face a slew of challenges, from a stalled economy to continued conflict with Moscow-backed separatists in the east.

But for supporters in his hometown like Volodymyr Tignyan -- a secondary school teacher who taught Zelensky physics some 25 years ago -- the comedian represents a real chance for change.

"I hope that when he gets into power everything will change for the better," the 64-year-old told AFP.

Zelensky was a "conscientious, dedicated and responsible" student, Tignyan said, qualities that should serve him well if he does become Ukraine's next leader.

The 41-year-old actor, whose only previous political experience is playing the president in a TV show, has largely steered clear of national identity issues.

That has set him apart from Poroshenko, who has used patriotic slogans and mocked Zelensky's spoken Ukrainian.

[Ernie]

I think Putin would have invaded Ukraine, even if the Ukrainian government had allowed Russian speaking citizens to keep their language and culture.

Where did you get this question from?

You do realize that the current Ukrainian government is run by the native Russian speaker Zelensky and his governing party was swept into power by the Russian-speaking eastern half of Ukraine? Zelensky WAS the choice of Russian-speaking Ukrainians. The losing candidate, Petro Poroshenko was the Ukrainian-speaking candidate and drew his support from the Ukrainian-speaking western half of the country.

The question comes from pre-Zelensky, pre 2014.

www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/t ... t/i0sp0o7/

[Ken]

I think Putin would have invaded Ukraine, even if the Ukrainian government had allowed Russian speaking citizens to keep their language and culture.

Where did you get this question from?

You do realize that the current Ukrainian government is run by the native Russian speaker Zelensky and his governing party was swept into power by the Russian-speaking eastern half of Ukraine? Zelensky WAS the choice of Russian-speaking Ukrainians. The losing candidate, Petro Poroshenko was the Ukrainian-speaking candidate and drew his support from the Ukrainian-speaking western half of the country.

The question comes from pre-Zelensky, pre 2014.

www.reddit.com/r/AskARussian/comments/t ... t/i0sp0o7/

Well it isn't true.

The history of the USSR and Russia is the exact opposite. Everywhere in the USSR local languages were suppressed in favor of Russian. Not just in Ukraine but in every Soviet Republic from Lithuania to Kazakhstan. The history of the post Soviet era is local non-Russian speaking cultures slowly recovering their language and culture after a century of repression.

Russia has always been an imperialistic nation going all the way back to Catherine the Great and before. From the 16th century onwards Russia conquered, on average, territory the size of the Netherlands every year for 150 years. The Soviet era was just more of the same thing under a different ideology. And now it is back again with a vengeance under Putin. What is going on in Ukraine is no different from the previous 250 years of Russian imperial conquest.

[Josh]

Well it isn't true.

The history of the USSR and Russia is the exact opposite. Everywhere in the USSR local languages were suppressed in favor of Russian. Not just in Ukraine but in every Soviet Republic from Lithuania to Kazakhstan. The history of the post Soviet era is local non-Russian speaking cultures slowly recovering their language and culture after a century of repression.

Russia has always been an imperialistic nation going all the way back to Catherine the Great and before. From the 16th century onwards Russia conquered, on average, territory the size of the Netherlands every year for 150 years. The Soviet era was just more of the same thing under a different ideology. And now it is back again with a vengeance under Putin. What is going on in Ukraine is no different from the previous 250 years of Russian imperial conquest.

The USSR hasn't existed since 1990, and in the time period since then Ukraine tried to instituted a "no Russian used officially" policy. It would be analogous to Ireland banning using English in official documents, legal proceedings, on TV, etc. - even though the Irish language is actually used daily by about 2% of people in Ireland.

I don't think language policy is a good justification for starting a war. But at least be honest about what was going on in Ukraine pre-invasion. One of the things I notice is that people who are against the Russian side of this war seem to live in a bubble where everything Ukraine has ever done is good, everything it does now is good, and it's somehow being "influenced by Russian propaganda" to think anything not positive about Ukraine.

[Ernie]

Well it isn't true.

What isn't true?

[Ken]

Well it isn't true.

What isn't true?

That Russia invaded because Ukraine was persecuting Russian speakers. They overwhelmingly elected one.

[Ken]

Well it isn't true.

The history of the USSR and Russia is the exact opposite. Everywhere in the USSR local languages were suppressed in favor of Russian. Not just in Ukraine but in every Soviet Republic from Lithuania to Kazakhstan. The history of the post Soviet era is local non-Russian speaking cultures slowly recovering their language and culture after a century of repression.

Russia has always been an imperialistic nation going all the way back to Catherine the Great and before. From the 16th century onwards Russia conquered, on average, territory the size of the Netherlands every year for 150 years. The Soviet era was just more of the same thing under a different ideology. And now it is back again with a vengeance under Putin. What is going on in Ukraine is no different from the previous 250 years of Russian imperial conquest.

The USSR hasn't existed since 1990, and in the time period since then Ukraine tried to instituted a "no Russian used officially" policy. It would be analogous to Ireland banning using English in official documents, legal proceedings, on TV, etc. - even though the Irish language is actually used daily by about 2% of people in Ireland.

I don't think language policy is a good justification for starting a war. But at least be honest about what was going on in Ukraine pre-invasion. One of the things I notice is that people who are against the Russian side of this war seem to live in a bubble where everything Ukraine has ever done is good, everything it does now is good, and it's somehow being "influenced by Russian propaganda" to think anything not positive about Ukraine.

Establishing an official language for government communications is not the same thing as persecuting speakers of another language.

There are more than TWICE as many native Spanish speakers in the US as there are native Russian speakers in Ukraine. Should we make the US a dual-language country like Canada and require Spanish and English to be used for every government communication, package label, TV show, etc. and require that all public schools teach in both Spanish and English? Much of the American Southwest from California to Texas has Spanish-Speaking heritage going back generations. Hence Los Angeles, San Francisco, San Antonio, etc. Are they being persecuted?

None of that is the slightest justification for the genocidal war that Russia is waging against Ukraine. And yes, that is the correct word. And for that matter, both the Russian and Ukrainian speaking populations of Ukraine overwhelmingly oppose what Russia is doing. Most of the cities that Russia is bombing and leveling to the ground like Mariupol and Bakmut are majority Russian-speaking.

Many countries in Europe are multi-lingual from Switzerland to Belgium. None of that is the slightest reason for a war of aggression by a neighboring country and you know it.