Sattler College Turmoil

[ken_sylvania]

The second comment you quoted sure looks to me like a retraction of the implication that FOTW was not getting an outside assistance. Are you suggesting you think Ernie ought to retract all of the true things he said because a part of what he said was partly incorrect?

If FOTW was working to make things right with the folks who believe they have been wronged, and if FOTW was getting outside assistance to help them walk a path of repentance and restoration, I would not post publicly about them as I have in this thread.

[Emphasis mine]

I'm pointing out that Ernie, positioning himself as someone in the know and his claims as established facts, put a church group on blast in a public forum for days—including detailed descriptions of personal correspondence the authors specifically asked him to keep confidential—and that he specifically claimed this was justified by the fact that FOTW is not getting outside assistance or working to make things right with those they wronged.

If the whole justification I had just offered for publicly dragging a church and its leaders through the dirt turned out to be based on easily verifiable misinformation, I would personally feel my responsibility to address that might go a bit beyond a simple "Oops! Anyway..."

On the other hand, if I fully understood how depraved the leaders at FOTW have become, perhaps I too would be prepared to acknowledge that this is the kind of emergency in which the ordinary Christian duties of intellectual honesty, respect for personal privacy, and due diligence regarding hearsay must be temporarily suspended.

I don't think Ernie did the things you are accusing him of here. I happen to know that Ernie as a man of integrity who cares more about the truth than about taking sides. From what I've observed very few members on this forum would feel the need to come back and acknowledge having made a mistaken implication as he did, and I admire him for doing so. I really don't understand why you feel such a need to attack him as a result of that correction.

[Judas Maccabeus]

Honestly, it’s a little like CAM. When one waits until public opinion shifts against them, it’s hard to address the issue after the fact.. if they had been more proactive in addressing why the board members left, why the president left…

I don't know exactly when Sattler and FotW leaders first began working to bring in a neutral third party org to help with reconciliation, but I know I personally first heard about those efforts months ago, when the upheaval at Sattler was quite fresh and the public attacks had not yet gathered much steam. So the process was more proactive on their part than we outside observers might assume given the information that's publicly available.

My understanding is that FoTW's early proposal to recruit a neutral Christian organization to help lead a peace process was and continues to be rejected by the aggrieved parties. I assume they have defensible reasons for believing their case is better tried in the court of public opinion than by trained mediators from an established Christian organization, but as yet I have not had the privilege of hearing those reasons.

Maybe, just maybe, the victims of this do not consider the third party so “neutral.” Having been involved in dealing with the aftermath of an abuse situation, if you want, you can select an”established Christian organization “ to do anything you pay them to.

Are you on the payroll?

J.M.

[jahertz]

With a couple of refreshing exceptions, the Court of Mennonet Armchair Zealots, despite a striking dearth of accurate facts, has clearly arrived at a verdict it is happy with regarding all things Sattler and FoTW. Given the general eagerness to seize upon any salacious rumor that supports the chosen conclusion and to casually discount or dismiss any facts that might suggest otherwise, I see little to be gained by investing more time trying to present another view or correct the record.

I suppose I can credit this realization to Judas's characteristic suggestion that my taking the contrary viewpoint must be attributable to my being on someone's payroll. Whose? I'm not sure but I doubt that detail really matters to my purposes, or to his.

Anyway, notwithstanding my disdain for his habit of piling up empty insinuations, Judas has a point in this case: there really is no call for me to put myself through more of this silliness for free. So while I am not closing the door to the right sponsorship offer (pm me for contact info ) I think I've done as much of this gratis as I can justify at the moment.

There are definitely people in this discussion I can imagine having a mutually edifying discussion with on this topic, and they are welcome to message me privately if they wish to follow up elsewhere. So good night for the present: perhaps next time we meet it will be under happier circumstances in someplace as salutary as Cleveland.

[HondurasKeiser]

With a couple of refreshing exceptions, the Court of Mennonet Armchair Zealots, despite a striking dearth of accurate facts, has clearly arrived at a verdict it is happy with regarding all things Sattler and FoTW. Given the general eagerness to seize upon any salacious rumor that supports the chosen conclusion and to casually discount or dismiss any facts that might suggest otherwise, I see little to be gained by investing more time trying to present another view or correct the record.

I suppose I can credit this realization to Judas's characteristic suggestion that my taking the contrary viewpoint must be attributable to my being on someone's payroll. Whose? I'm not sure but I doubt that detail really matters to my purposes, or to his.

Anyway, notwithstanding my disdain for his habit of piling up empty insinuations, Judas has a point in this case: there really is no call for me to put myself through more of this silliness for free. So while I am not closing the door to the right sponsorship offer (pm me for contact info ) I think I've done as much of this gratis as I can justify at the moment.

There are definitely people in this discussion I can imagine having a mutually edifying discussion with on this topic, and they are welcome to message me privately if they wish to follow up elsewhere. So good night for the present: perhaps next time we meet it will be under happier circumstances in someplace as salutary as Cleveland.

You are a remarkably good writer.

[Judas Maccabeus]

With a couple of refreshing exceptions, the Court of Mennonet Armchair Zealots, despite a striking dearth of accurate facts, has clearly arrived at a verdict it is happy with regarding all things Sattler and FoTW. Given the general eagerness to seize upon any salacious rumor that supports the chosen conclusion and to casually discount or dismiss any facts that might suggest otherwise, I see little to be gained by investing more time trying to present another view or correct the record.

I suppose I can credit this realization to Judas's characteristic suggestion that my taking the contrary viewpoint must be attributable to my being on someone's payroll. Whose? I'm not sure but I doubt that detail really matters to my purposes, or to his.

Anyway, notwithstanding my disdain for his habit of piling up empty insinuations, Judas has a point in this case: there really is no call for me to put myself through more of this silliness for free. So while I am not closing the door to the right sponsorship offer (pm me for contact info ) I think I've done as much of this gratis as I can justify at the moment.

There are definitely people in this discussion I can imagine having a mutually edifying discussion with on this topic, and they are welcome to message me privately if they wish to follow up elsewhere. So good night for the present: perhaps next time we meet it will be under happier circumstances in someplace as salutary as Cleveland.

1. Well, I was asking if you were working for FOTW/Sattler. You seem to claim to have inside information that we are all not to be privy to. Hence the question. Your zeal and attitude betray a major stake in the game.

2. Armchair I am not, I reject that characterization. I was hoping for the best when the project began. Do you think that what goes on up there has been confined to there? It has caused issues that impacts us as well. This is why my travels have taken me to Boston. My cynicism of what has occurred up there is well earned. My critique of their theology is on the record.

3. Like it or not, one is not engaging a "Neutral" arbitrator unless both parties have approved it. So no such arbiter has been appointed until both sides agree, As far as I understand, that has not happened.

4. You have a really thin skin. Did you expect an easy ride, or for people to simple accept all you say as truth, and not question it? In my observation, FOTW people simply cannot handle pushback.

[mike]

With a couple of refreshing exceptions, the Court of Mennonet Armchair Zealots, despite a striking dearth of accurate facts, has clearly arrived at a verdict it is happy with regarding all things Sattler and FoTW. Given the general eagerness to seize upon any salacious rumor that supports the chosen conclusion and to casually discount or dismiss any facts that might suggest otherwise, I see little to be gained by investing more time trying to present another view or correct the record.

I suppose I can credit this realization to Judas's characteristic suggestion that my taking the contrary viewpoint must be attributable to my being on someone's payroll. Whose? I'm not sure but I doubt that detail really matters to my purposes, or to his.

Anyway, notwithstanding my disdain for his habit of piling up empty insinuations, Judas has a point in this case: there really is no call for me to put myself through more of this silliness for free. So while I am not closing the door to the right sponsorship offer (pm me for contact info ) I think I've done as much of this gratis as I can justify at the moment.

There are definitely people in this discussion I can imagine having a mutually edifying discussion with on this topic, and they are welcome to message me privately if they wish to follow up elsewhere. So good night for the present: perhaps next time we meet it will be under happier circumstances in someplace as salutary as Cleveland.

You are a remarkably good writer.

I have seen more than one person in a discussion with jahertz online where it was clear they were unwittingly bringing a knife to a gunfight.

[Nomad]

With a couple of refreshing exceptions, the Court of Mennonet Armchair Zealots, despite a striking dearth of accurate facts, has clearly arrived at a verdict it is happy with regarding all things Sattler and FoTW. Given the general eagerness to seize upon any salacious rumor that supports the chosen conclusion and to casually discount or dismiss any facts that might suggest otherwise, I see little to be gained by investing more time trying to present another view or correct the record.

I suppose I can credit this realization to Judas's characteristic suggestion that my taking the contrary viewpoint must be attributable to my being on someone's payroll. Whose? I'm not sure but I doubt that detail really matters to my purposes, or to his.

Anyway, notwithstanding my disdain for his habit of piling up empty insinuations, Judas has a point in this case: there really is no call for me to put myself through more of this silliness for free. So while I am not closing the door to the right sponsorship offer (pm me for contact info ) I think I've done as much of this gratis as I can justify at the moment.

There are definitely people in this discussion I can imagine having a mutually edifying discussion with on this topic, and they are welcome to message me privately if they wish to follow up elsewhere. So good night for the present: perhaps next time we meet it will be under happier circumstances in someplace as salutary as Cleveland.

You are a remarkably good writer.

Like Shakespeare or something from the classics. Very impressive...

[Soloist]

I have seen more than one person in a discussion with jahertz online where it was clear they were unwittingly bringing a knife to a gunfight.

I think most of us are willing to lay a knife down and back away slowly.

That being said you can’t state something as being factual and provide no proof against multiple experiences that have been shared with some of us on this forum.
Ex faculty, students, board members and multiple others who were very enthusiastic about Sattler who now are taking a stand against its issues.
Your language is hostile and for having no stake as you say; you are surprisingly invested.

[AnthonyMartin]

I have a better idea.
Why don't you come to Boston and visit Sattler for yourself?
We'd be glad to show you around our facilities, and even cover your plane fare. If you're interested, you could even give a pearl at Tea Time.
Our experience has been that when people come and see for themselves, they discover that they have had some misconceptions about us. I'd love to make it work.

Or, you could come to our Open House. Here's the link. Hope to see you.
https://events.sattler.edu/event/sattler.events.350134

So that's a no then?

Invitation is still open.

Sattler College does not own laboratory facilities, nor does it pretend to.

Our students are able to use lab facilities at several colleges in Boston.
The fact that we don't own the facilities doesn't keep our students from getting an education that prepares them for amazing careers that have included grad school, med school, PA school, and jobs at laboratories within Boston. We've had students who participated in research studies and even been named in peer-reviewed journal articles.

The fact remains that Sattler is making it possible for students to receive a world-class education for a fraction of the cost of many other colleges.

Once again, I invite you to come to Sattler and see for yourself.

I can vouch for the warm invitation and pleasant time with brothereicher and his family in Boston. Very gracious hosts, and we were able to enjoy some delightful Thai food with them. No payroll, inducements, or freebies involved.

[Dan Z]

With a couple of refreshing exceptions, the Court of Mennonet Armchair Zealots, despite a striking dearth of accurate facts, has clearly arrived at a verdict it is happy with regarding all things Sattler and FoTW. Given the general eagerness to seize upon any salacious rumor that supports the chosen conclusion and to casually discount or dismiss any facts that might suggest otherwise, I see little to be gained by investing more time trying to present another view or correct the record.

I suppose I can credit this realization to Judas's characteristic suggestion that my taking the contrary viewpoint must be attributable to my being on someone's payroll. Whose? I'm not sure but I doubt that detail really matters to my purposes, or to his.

Anyway, notwithstanding my disdain for his habit of piling up empty insinuations, Judas has a point in this case: there really is no call for me to put myself through more of this silliness for free. So while I am not closing the door to the right sponsorship offer (pm me for contact info ) I think I've done as much of this gratis as I can justify at the moment.

There are definitely people in this discussion I can imagine having a mutually edifying discussion with on this topic, and they are welcome to message me privately if they wish to follow up elsewhere. So good night for the present: perhaps next time we meet it will be under happier circumstances in someplace as salutary as Cleveland.

You are a remarkably good writer.

Like Shakespeare or something from the classics. Very impressive...

Product of a good Sattler education...