Russia Invades Ukraine 2022

[Soloist]

I would say Ukraine was forced to deploy them.

Mines are two things, area denial and defensive buffers. The only way Ukraine would be forced to use them is if Russia was advancing and they couldn’t stop them.

Russia has been attacking across what... a 1,000 mile front? since February 2022. Just because they haven't been particularly successful since the initial phase of the war doesn't mean they aren't trying. It just means that Ukraine's defenses have solidified. And anti-tank mines have played a part of that as you can see from endless videos of Russian tanks blowing themselves up on Ukrainian anti-tank mines.

It would be negligence for the Ukrainian military to not have defenses prepared all along the 1000+ mile front.

The point was over antipersonnel land mines not tank mines.
Also, just because they have 1000+ miles doesn’t actually mean they are defending that. There are key points to defend. Our world is way past the wall of China.

[temporal1]

Praying for peace in Ukraine.
They are the most mined country in the world and frontline medics are seeing the highest number of casualties from mines.

NPR / Human Rights Watch urges investigation of alleged use of land mines by Ukraine
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/31/11527430 ... -landmines

KYIV — A human rights group says it has documented "numerous cases" of Ukrainian forces firing land mines into territory that was controlled at the time by Russia.

In a new report, Human Rights Watch suggests that Ukraine scattered so-called petal mines in and around the eastern Ukrainian city of Izium. Petal mines are prohibited under the 1997 Anti-Personnel Mine Ban Treaty, of which Ukraine is a signatory, because of their ability to indiscriminately maim and kill.

The report contradicts previous claims, including from Human Rights Watch itself, that Ukraine has only used anti-vehicle mines since Russia invaded in February 2022. Those types of mines are generally permissible under the laws of war.

"Russia has used these weapons in even greater numbers than Ukraine in a much more widespread fashion in different parts of the country," Steve Goose, the director of Human Rights Watch's Arms Division, told NPR. But, with these revelations, Ukraine's "moral high ground has been compromised." .. ..

.. .. Last August, Amnesty International suggested Ukraine may have committed war crimes for placing weapons too close to civilian areas. The human rights group later backpedaled on some conclusions after its local staff resigned and Ukraine's government accused the organization of creating a false equivalence between Russia and Ukraine.

Human Rights Watch says its evidence of Ukrainian mining activity in Izium, however, is more unequivocal than past allegations of Ukrainian war crimes. The group is calling on the Ukrainian military to conduct an internal investigation into its adherence to the country's international obligations.

"I think, without question, this is the worst violation of the Mine Ban Treaty in its 25 years of existence," says Goose.

"Ukraine's moral high ground has been compromised" Let's talk Russia. Ukraine has no nuclear arsenal.
Why did you post this article?

Hi, Marylander,
i much appreciated your post, first, praying for peace, then noting the land mine horrors.
i rushed to presume the mines were Russian, was surprised to see some reports of Ukraine placing mines on its own land, AND reported as such by NPR. Of course, most reports are of Russia’s aggression. (i don’t expect honesty in reporting.)

i posted for reference and perspective.

i agree with Josh and Soloist:

Both Ukraine and Russia insist on using very bad land mines that attract children.

Even Belarus got rid of their stockpiles of them.

Neither Russia nor Ukraine can claim the high ground on much of anything when it comes to using land mines that maim innocent children. Incidentally, Russia SFSR and Ukrainian SSR both contributed many troops and equipment to distribute mines all over Afghanistan which were manufactured in Ukrainian SSR amongst other places.

For the record, America still has active land mine fields maintained.
War has no moral superiority in the end.

Both Ukraine and Russia insist

I would say Ukraine was forced to deploy them.

Human reasoning, and Just War theory, ETC., agree. Primitive humankind.

On a largely Anabaptist / CO forum, i would hope for devotion to Jesus’ leadership to find His unexpected Way of peace.
In this topic, cluster bombs and land mines are defended.

It’s just not what i would have expected, it’s not what i’ve read about here over former years on MD+MN.

Also, i think of “Ukraine” as a popular euphemism for U.S./West funding.

Does that help?

[Josh]

It would be great if everyone would simply stop using antipersonnel mines, particularly ones that don't kill but maim and that never expire and last forever. These devices and the people who create them and distribute them are, essentially, the enemy of the human race.

[Ken]

It would be great if everyone would simply stop using antipersonnel mines, particularly ones that don't kill but maim and that never expire and last forever. These devices and the people who create them and distribute them are, essentially, the enemy of the human race.

It would be even better if countries did not engage in wars of aggression and conquest. Then there would be no need for land mines or any other weapons.

According to the international tribunal at Nuremburg:

To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

[Josh]

It would be great if everyone would simply stop using antipersonnel mines, particularly ones that don't kill but maim and that never expire and last forever. These devices and the people who create them and distribute them are, essentially, the enemy of the human race.

It would be even better if countries did not engage in wars of aggression and conquest. Then there would be no need for land mines or any other weapons.

According to the international tribunal at Nuremburg:

To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole."

It would be even better if men stopped engaging in war and violence.

[Soloist]

It would be great if mankind would treat each other as Christ called us to.

[Ken]

On the subject of land mines, it seems that only one side is mining nuclear power plants.

International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) experts have observed directional anti-personnel mines on the periphery of the site of Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP), Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi said today.

During a walkdown on 23 July, the IAEA team saw some mines located in a buffer zone between the site’s internal and external perimeter barriers. The experts reported that they were situated in a restricted area that operating plant personnel cannot access and were facing away from the site. The team did not observe any within the inner site perimeter during the walkdown.

“As I have reported earlier, the IAEA has been aware of the previous placement of mines outside the site perimeter and also at particular places inside. Our team has raised this specific finding with the plant and they have been told that it is a military decision, and in an area controlled by military,” Director General Grossi said.

“But having such explosives on the site is inconsistent with the IAEA safety standards and nuclear security guidance and creates additional psychological pressure on plant staff – even if the IAEA’s initial assessment based on its own observations and the plant’s clarifications is that any detonation of these mines should not affect the site’s nuclear safety and security systems. The team will continue its interactions with the plant,” he added.

In recent days and weeks, the IAEA experts present at the ZNPP have carried out inspections and regular walkdowns across the site, without seeing any heavy military equipment. The IAEA is also continuing to request access to the roofs of the ZNPP’s reactors and their turbine halls, including units 3 and 4 which are of particular interest.

Earlier today, the experts visited the reactor unit 6 main control room, emergency control room, the rooms where electrical cabinets of the safety systems are located, and parts of the turbine hall where they saw the main feedwater pumps, main turbine oil tank and main condenser. While the team was not able to visit all areas in the turbine hall, they did not observe any mines or explosives.

In the evening of 22 July, the IAEA team heard several detonations some distance away from the plant.

[Marylander]

NPR / Human Rights Watch urges investigation of alleged use of land mines by Ukraine
https://www.npr.org/2023/01/31/11527430 ... -landmines

"Ukraine's moral high ground has been compromised" Let's talk Russia. Ukraine has no nuclear arsenal.
Why did you post this article?

Hi, Marylander,
i much appreciated your post, first, praying for peace, then noting the land mine horrors.
i rushed to presume the mines were Russian, was surprised to see some reports of Ukraine placing mines on its own land, AND reported as such by NPR. Of course, most reports are of Russia’s aggression. (i don’t expect honesty in reporting.)

i posted for reference and perspective.

i agree with Josh and Soloist:

Both Ukraine and Russia insist on using very bad land mines that attract children.

Even Belarus got rid of their stockpiles of them.

Neither Russia nor Ukraine can claim the high ground on much of anything when it comes to using land mines that maim innocent children. Incidentally, Russia SFSR and Ukrainian SSR both contributed many troops and equipment to distribute mines all over Afghanistan which were manufactured in Ukrainian SSR amongst other places.

For the record, America still has active land mine fields maintained.
War has no moral superiority in the end.

Both Ukraine and Russia insist

I would say Ukraine was forced to deploy them.

Human reasoning, and Just War theory, ETC., agree. Primitive humankind.

On a largely Anabaptist / CO forum, i would hope for devotion to Jesus’ leadership to find His unexpected Way of peace.
In this topic, cluster bombs and land mines are defended.

It’s just not what i would have expected, it’s not what i’ve read about here over former years on MD+MN.

Also, i think of “Ukraine” as a popular euphemism for U.S./West funding.

Does that help?

Unfortunately not. I feel sad that you posted such a slanted article.

[Josh]

On the subject of land mines, it seems that only one side is mining nuclear power plants.

Ah yes, "my side are the good guys". An old canard, and one very common to see from the pro-war side. (I got very used to it when hearing the propaganda about why it was good to invade Iraq and Afghanistan.)

The truth is that the Ukraine and Russia both seem to feel at liberty to use antipersonnel mines wherever they want, and use some of the worst, most harmful to innocent human life, stockpiles one can imagine.

Even Belarus got rid of their stockpiles. Think about that. Russia and Ukraine both failed to achieve the bar set by Belarus.

The only answer is, obviously, that this war must immediately end, now. Everyone involved should lay down their arms and seek to follow the Prince of Peace, instead of the prince of this world.

[Soloist]

Ken, is there an acceptable place to put bombs?
You do realize power plants are major war targets right?