6 killed at private Christian School in Nashville

[Ken]

So, is this an accurate description of conservative thought here on Mennonet?

• We SHOULD NOT attempt to regulate firearms despite our children dying from firearms at 50-times the rate of comparable countries because....some kids might make bombs, there will still be illegal guns readily available, gun's aren't evil people are evil, Germany doesn't have speed limits on the autobahn, and something about Brazil

but....

• We SHOULD outlaw abortion despite the fact that some people will still get illegal abortions or travel to places where they are legal

• We SHOULD crack down on illegal immigration despite the fact that some people will still cross the border illegally, or overstay legal visas.

• We SHOULD prohibit teens from getting transgender hormones and surgeries despite the fact that illegal hormones are readily available on the black market or internet.

• We SHOULD prohibit illicit use of opioids, fentanyl, heroin, and other drugs despite the fact that there is a vast black market in illegal drugs in this country and people will get them anyway.

If that is an inaccurate description, which of the above statements do people here disagree with?

[MaxPC]

Don't know if this has been posted here. Just thought I would pass it on. The first paragraph is what I am focusing on, not the second.

Thank you for posting this. Mr. Graham highlights the important facts of human evil and human goodness. He does not wallow in political wrangling nor excuse-making.

[Ken]

Don't know if this has been posted here. Just thought I would pass it on. The first paragraph is what I am focusing on, not the second.

Thank you for posting this. Mr. Graham highlights the important facts of human evil and human goodness. He does not wallow in political wrangling nor excuse-making.

Mr. Graham actually spends much of his time "wallowing in political wrangling" on a wide variety of topics including COVID, Trump, the 2020 elections, 1/6, CPAC, LGBT rights, etc. etc. But for some reason he is terrified to take a position on guns.

[Soloist]

So, is this an accurate description of conservative thought here on Mennonet?

• We SHOULD NOT attempt to regulate firearms despite our children dying from firearms at 50-times the rate of comparable countries because....some kids might make bombs, there will still be illegal guns readily available, gun's aren't evil people are evil, Germany doesn't have speed limits on the autobahn, and something about Brazil

I have no stance but I find it hard to believe that the average person has need for weapons not designed for either home defense (I’m non-resistant myself) or hunting.
That being said, I have no stance on what the government should or should not do on weapons.

• We SHOULD outlaw abortion despite the fact that some people will still get illegal abortions or travel to places where they are legal

It saddens me that abortion is done as I am saddened by people shooting anyone. Again though, the government has the right to do what they see fit. In both this and firearms, I see the government having the right to restrict access.

• We SHOULD crack down on illegal immigration despite the fact that some people will still cross the border illegally, or overstay legal visas.

I think that a government that has no border control will have problems. Again, government's choice.

• We SHOULD prohibit teens from getting transgender hormones and surgeries despite the fact that illegal hormones are readily available on the black market or internet.

I think that the government should restrict dangerous items from people who are not mature enough to use them. If a teen can’t vote, go to war and is generally thought to be immature… I would say that choosing life changing choices with permanent consequences shouldn’t be allowed. Again though it’s the government’s choice.

• We SHOULD prohibit illicit use of opioids, fentanyl, heroin, and other drugs despite the fact that there is a vast black market in illegal drugs in this country and people will get them anyway.

I believe the government should take a more active role in helping people break free from these vices.

If that is an inaccurate description, which of the above statements do people here disagree with?

My position is one of non involvement and the government will do as it chooses. I would speak against evil but I will not engage in voting or legal routes to dictate what the government does. Clear as mud?

[RZehr]

So, is this an accurate description of conservative thought here on Mennonet?

• We SHOULD NOT attempt to regulate firearms despite our children dying from firearms at 50-times the rate of comparable countries because....some kids might make bombs, there will still be illegal guns readily available, gun's aren't evil people are evil, Germany doesn't have speed limits on the autobahn, and something about Brazil

but....

• We SHOULD outlaw abortion despite the fact that some people will still get illegal abortions or travel to places where they are legal

• We SHOULD crack down on illegal immigration despite the fact that some people will still cross the border illegally, or overstay legal visas.

• We SHOULD prohibit teens from getting transgender hormones and surgeries despite the fact that illegal hormones are readily available on the black market or internet.

• We SHOULD prohibit illicit use of opioids, fentanyl, heroin, and other drugs despite the fact that there is a vast black market in illegal drugs in this country and people will get them anyway.

If that is an inaccurate description, which of the above statements do people here disagree with?

Is this an accurate description of liberal thought here on Mennonet?

• We SHOULD regulate firearms because our children dying from firearms at 50-times the rate of comparable countries despite the fact that there will still be illegal guns readily available, gun's are evil people aren't evil, Germany doesn't allow guns on the autobahn, and something about Brazil's wildly successful murder rates.

but....

• We SHOULD not attempt to regulate abortion because of the fact that some people will still get illegal abortions or travel to places where they are legal. Despite the fact our abortion rates are tens of thousands of babys a year.

• We SHOULD not attempt to crack down on illegal immigration because some will just get here anyway. Despite the fact that criminals have easy access to smuggling criminals and drugs through.

• We SHOULD not attempt to prohibit teens from getting transgender hormones and surgeries because of the fact that illegal hormones are readily available on the black market or internet. Despite the fact that minors are already limited in a lot of other areas.

• We SHOULD not attempt to prohibit illicit use of opioids, fentanyl, heroin, and other drugs because of the fact that there is a vast black market in illegal drugs in this country and people will get them anyway. Despite the fact that it is destroying both rural and urban areas, ruining families and communities, causing toxic and non-toxic waste, ruining lives, costing millions of dollars to treat.

I agree with Soloist.
While I have opinions about what regulations would be good, and what would be bad, for a country to have - my responsibility is as an ambassador. We should use our influence to promote our values, but ultimately we are limited in what our role should be. With regard to AR's, I've said before that I don't think Christians ought to have them. I don't think we should be patsies for the gun industry either. And I think it is reasonable to believe that the data indicates that if we removed them, mass shootings would be reduced somewhat.
But I guess I'm enough of a redneck to believe (maybe incorrectly) that tyrants have always banned guns, and it hasn't always turned out well for the powerless in those countries. And that is the reason for the second amendment. Which is not applicable to abortion, illegal immigration, transgender hormones and surgeries, or illicit use of drugs.

[appleman2006]

My only question is this. Why did the first post in this thread not start out with your declaration of your love for ice cream?

[GaryK]

My only question is this. Why did the first post in this thread not start out with your declaration of your love for ice cream?

Good question!

[Josh]

American culture has an idolatrous love affair with guns. We look to them for our salvation, that is, to literally make us safe. They make us feel empowered and secure and we feel they give us agency and freedom.

Could you describe what you would prefer us to have to feel safe? Swords? Knives? Bows and arrows? Spears? Molotov cocktails?

It is clear in scripture that the New Testament teaches that the "magistrate does not bear the sword in vain". It should be obvious that outlawing guns means someone must be endowed by the magistrate with more powerful guns to overpower anyone who has an "illegal" gun.

I'm not trying to be difficult here, but I'm asking exactly how you think a society with "no guns" would be structured.

[MaxPC]

9-Year-Old Victim of Christian School Shooting Used Last Moments Trying to Save Others from Killer
By Jack Davis, Western Journal
March 29, 2023 at 7:07am
“Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends,” John 15:13 states.
In the frenzied moments when death held the children of The Covenant School in the hollow of its hand, one little girl stood up to save them, only to be shot down.

Evelyn Dieckhaus, 9, was trying to reach the fire alarm to get help, according to the Daily Mail.
This little girl tried saving her friends by pulling a fire alarm when she heard the Nashville shooter coming.
She was shot and killed.
Her name was Evelyn Dieckhaus.

By the time it came, she was lost.
Dieckhaus was one of three children that died Monday when Audrey Hale killed six people at the Nashville, Tennessee, school before Hale in turn was killed by police.
“She was very creative, she and her older sister would stage plays in the backyard. She was just an absolute delight,” said a family friend, who spoke to The Missourian but was not named.

…
As the tale of Evelyn’s effort spread, Twitter reacted.
May we all have just half of her courage. I was okay up until this. Now I’m crying.
Turn back to God, folks. We can’t do this alone.

[RZehr]

I agree 100% with your first observation, about how the gun culture and marketing has changed.

I also agree that to a certain extent we have become callous to mass shootings.

But I don’t think either of these actually shed much light on the culture shift that devalues human life.

I would say that sometime around maybe the year 2000 the two graph lines crossed and gun sales became less and less about hunting and more and more about killing. I don't know if you remember Y2K but there was an enormous surge in survivalist mentality then. I was living in Alaska and I knew people who basically went off the deep end with the Y2K prepping which basically involved packing away a year's worth of food and becoming massively armed for the zombie Apocalypse.

I bet today in 2023 if you found a list of the top 10 list of best-selling rifles in America it would be mostly "tactical" rifles of various sorts where "tactical" is just a euphemism for military. And call it what you want, but "prepping" and self defense is just preparing yourself to kill.

And if we went back to say 1980 the top 10 list of best selling rifles would all be Winchester, Remington, Savage, etc. bolt or lever action hunting rifles in various hunting calibers.

The problem isn't the 45 year old duffers who like to collect their guns. It is the 15 year old alienated psychopath kids who are jacked full of testosterone and hate the world and who stumble into modern "gun culture" online and get swallowed up into a black whole of prepping and killing in the dark recesses of the internet. And then spend a couple of years steeping in that stuff until they emerge as killers at age 18. Back when I was 16 the only gun literature I had access to was my grandfather's 50 year collection of Pennsylvania Game News and Field and Stream. Which I admit to spending many long hours reading avidly. But it was all stories about stalking trophy deer or hand carving turkey calls and duck decoys. Today? I can't even imagine what a curious psychopathic 16 year old can find online.

I can agree that this is an important point. I don't think the 45 year old duffer who collects guns should necessarily be completely off the hook either. And if the data shows that access to AR's is the single most impactful thing, I have no problem accepting that. I find it weird, and other conservatives find it alarming, that liberals only want to ban these guns, and are opposed to looking at anything else.
I know that the family unit is being destroyed in this country.
What percentage of young mass shooters live with or have both their biological parents married, living together, and go to church regularly? What percentage were taught to value human life? What percent were taught gun safety? What percent were taught that pretending to shoot people is not good?