Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.

U.S. Electoral College

 
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temporal1
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by temporal1 »

Robert wrote: The reason why the Electoral College is functional is because the united States are a collection of "states" working together. It is not really one unified nation, but 50 unified states.
Each state selects representatives, senators, and whom they want for president. Their majority vote seeds the electoral college.

This is how republics work, not the way democracies work.

This allows each region, or state, to work more independently and have some autonomy with their citizens and laws. I think this is a very good thing. What works in midtown NYC would not work in upper Michigan.

Even in construction, codes have to be adjusted for differing regions. Laws need the same.

Until federal income tax, taxes were mostly land tax. Although the rural regions were less populated, they often paid a much higher tax per person because of property tax. Allowing cities to dictate federal law would most likely tax rural areas almost out of existence.

While the EC may not be perfect,
it is a good system to find some balance in the presidential elections that bring in the voice of the minority, rural areas, so they are not shut down by the more populated urban centers.

Republics protect the rights of the minority much more than democracies.
This is important even in a presidential election.
i agree with your points on this topic.
this is a good explanation, and, importantly, you are pointing out realities that are often presumed to be the opposite, then accepted as fact. which is a sad way of doing things.

(i believe) the downsides of pure democracies should be common knowledge! (basic history.)
for a country like the U.S., so centered on “leveling playing fields,” it should be a no-brainer that simple democracies are not what is needed or wanted.

no system is, or will be, perfect! a popular delusion.
for the U.S., the republic system serves most, and better than, others.

If you would, i would appreciate your thoughts on possible state-versions of the EC, the idea of helpng prevent big cities “overlording” entire states? .. i see the idea floating, no details. Several states are suffering with this presently. -

The latest trick i read about, coming out of Chicago was in the 2018 Midterms.
There are a few state universities in Illinois, LOTS of Chicago children attend. My county is full of them. Our children were shocked to go to state schools with Chicago’s children, to learn just how inferior they presume we-all are, outside of Chicago city limits! :shock:

So, the 2018 election trick Chicago politicians resorted to was to encourage the Chicago children to vote AT SCHOOL, instead of returning to their Chicago homes to vote.

Students were interviewed on local news. They were PROUD of their achievements to sway local votes to Chicago. They were told to do this, and they did. “Pat on the head” stuff. :-|

It’s sad so much of this happens. Hollywood is keen on this.
People who care nothing at all for local people and their needs, deliberately throwing votes to serve their interests ELSEWHERE. The practice is all too common.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Bootstrap
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by Bootstrap »

Leaving this thread. Looks like the Electoral College is safe. Some states may decide to change the way they allocate votes. They have the right to do that.

I'd rather focus on other things.
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temporal1
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by temporal1 »

Bootstrap wrote: .. Looks like the Electoral College is safe.
Some states may decide to change the way they allocate votes. They have the right to do that. ..
This is why questions of state versions of the EC are being discussed.
Cities are deciding to “allocate votes,” the balance of the population is ignored.

The net effect has the potential to effectively undo, or bypass, the Constitution without the required effort. These cats don’t go to expensive law school for nothing.

In my state, of course, Chicago politicians are aware of what the county voting records are!
They know the entire state is, or “leans red,” so, once in office, they have ZERO interest in seeing the entire state thrive! Downstate Illinois is hurting. Chicago celebrates.

Looking at history, the city vs urban plight is 100% predictable, nothing new.
City folk have utter disdain for rural folk, until they are needed. Well. That day always comes. Typically through famine or war or disease, or some combination of disasters. But it comes.

i speak of Chicago, because Illinois is my experience.
i read of the same things happening in New York and California. Texas is now bothered with CA “refugees,” folks that are priced-out, taxed-out, crowded-out, of their homes. They will likely vote for the same failed policies in Texas that destroyed CA. That’s generally what people do.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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temporal1
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by temporal1 »

Correction: typos: :oops:
This is why questions of state versions of the EC are being discussed.
Cities are deciding to “allocate votes,” the balance of the population is ignored.

The net effect has the potential to effectively undo, or bypass, the Constitution without the required effort. These cats don’t go to expensive law school for nothing.

In my state, of course, Chicago politicians are aware of what the county voting records!
They know the entire state is, votes red, or “leans red,” so, once in office, they have ZERO interest in seeing the entire state thrive! Downstate Illinois is hurting. Chicago celebrates.

Looking at history, the city vs urban small town+rural plight is 100% predictable, nothing new.
City folk have utter disdain for rural folk, until they are needed. Well. That day always comes. Typically through famine or war or disease, or some combination of disasters. But it comes.

i speak of Chicago, because Illinois is my experience.
i read of the same things happening in New York and California. Texas is now bothered with CA “refugees,” folks that are priced-out, taxed-out, crowded-out, of their homes. They will likely vote for the same failed policies in Texas that destroyed CA. That’s generally what people do.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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temporal1
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by temporal1 »

2022: Poll questions are lost; ^^
Falco added depth to EC history, its meaning, value of U.S. Electoral College .. he has a few helpful posts, Pages 2-4, so far ..
Falco Underhill wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 8:26 pm
temporal1 wrote: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:52 pm The U.S. Electoral College is a hedge against this.
(i believe) states should have state versions of the EC, to prevent outright dominance of cities. (Some states may have it, i’m not sure.) Illinois doesn’t, and the entire state is suffering with Chicago bullying.
At one time, at least some states did have something similar to the electoral college - modeled on the federal government - in their state constitutions. Then the Warren Court struck those down declaring them to be unconstitutional. (I forget the case, at the moment.)

Unfortunately, one never even hears about Republicans being concerned to challenge that decision. That was highway robbery.

(There was no reason for that but to just hand power to liberal Democrats who generally control large cities.)

New York City runs the whole state of New York, too, and Philadelphia carries way too much weight in Pennsylvania.

(There are voting graphs showing the entire state of Pennsylvania colored red, except for that corner of Philadelphia, and yet the Philadelphia vote carried the day for the entire state.)
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


”We’re all just walking each other home.”
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Josh
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by Josh »

Liberals and Democrats think “democracy” is Chicago, L.A. and NYC telling the rest of the country what to do.
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Ken
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:21 pm Liberals and Democrats think “democracy” is Chicago, L.A. and NYC telling the rest of the country what to do.
Strawman much Josh? Instead of arguing against a ridiculous caricature that no one actually thinks or believes, how about arguing against an actual real position? I’ll help you out. If you want to summarize the liberal position on democracy it is probably something more like:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. And given that premise, all people should be treated equally when it comes to democracy, with universal suffrage and the principle of one person-one vote.”

I’m sure you can find many liberals to agree with that. So feel free to argue against that position instead.
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Josh
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by Josh »

Ken wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:18 pm
Josh wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:21 pm Liberals and Democrats think “democracy” is Chicago, L.A. and NYC telling the rest of the country what to do.
Strawman much Josh? Instead of arguing against a ridiculous caricature that no one actually thinks or believes, how about arguing against an actual real position? I’ll help you out. If you want to summarize the liberal position on democracy it is probably something more like:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. And given that premise, all people should be treated equally when it comes to democracy, with universal suffrage and the principle of one person-one vote.”

I’m sure you can find many liberals to agree with that. So feel free to argue against that position instead.
Actually, lots of Democrats have stated publicly that Trump voters should be deprived of having a job, have their children taken away from them, and not be allowed to vote or hold elected office.

So no, I don’t think Democrats believe in “democracy”. They believe in their own unfettered totalitarian rule.
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Ken
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:31 pm
Ken wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:18 pm
Josh wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:21 pm Liberals and Democrats think “democracy” is Chicago, L.A. and NYC telling the rest of the country what to do.
Strawman much Josh? Instead of arguing against a ridiculous caricature that no one actually thinks or believes, how about arguing against an actual real position? I’ll help you out. If you want to summarize the liberal position on democracy it is probably something more like:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. And given that premise, all people should be treated equally when it comes to democracy, with universal suffrage and the principle of one person-one vote.”

I’m sure you can find many liberals to agree with that. So feel free to argue against that position instead.
Actually, lots of Democrats have stated publicly that Trump voters should be deprived of having a job, have their children taken away from them, and not be allowed to vote or hold elected office.

So no, I don’t think Democrats believe in “democracy”. They believe in their own unfettered totalitarian rule.
Riiiight. “Lots of Democrats” And your citation for this bit of conspiracy theory nonsense is what? Alex Jones?
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A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Falco Underhill
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Re: Poll: U.S. Electoral College

Post by Falco Underhill »

Josh wrote: Wed Nov 16, 2022 8:31 pm We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. And given that premise, all people should be treated equally when it comes to democracy, with universal suffrage and the principle of one person-one vote.”
We live in a Republic, a Federal Republic. In fact, we live in a Constitutional Federal Republic, not a Democracy.

Our Constitution supports the one person-one vote principle only in the House of Representatives, not in the Senate, nor in the Electoral College, because we live in a Constitutional Federal Government.

We're a federation of individual states.

Representation in the House of Representatives is based on population. There is where the principle of one person-one vote is applicable within the frame of our Constitution.

Representation in the Senate is based upon political units (on states), and there the principle is one state-one vote. One person-one vote in the Senate would destroy the whole idea of the federal government.

One person-one vote as understood by the Warren Court (forcibly applied to the Senate) was never supported by the U.S. Constitution.

The structure of federalism is also retained in the Electoral College. That is why the Constitution didn't apply the principle of one person-one vote to that either.

One person-one vote is unconstitutional when applied either to the Senate or to the presidential election.
Last edited by Falco Underhill on Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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