Randal Martin on the CAM/Jeriah Debacle

[steve-in-kville]

That being said, when seeking to understand why an assailant commits an act of violence, it seems reasonable to examine the environmental and experiential factors that may contribute to the likelihood of violent acts occurring - not to excuse the wrong behavior, or shift blame, but to understand what factors are behind it, and how to treat and limit this type of violence from occurring to others.

I agree with Dan. I feel the culture that perpetrators are exposed to has a bearing, even among the conservative circles. When our son was investigated, there were some very disturbing things about the parochial school (they used to attend) that was brought to light. Stuff the boys talked about like it was "normal" to talk/act that way. It was even more disturbing when the investigating detective was like "yeah, this is common. I hear this quite often."

[temporal1]

That being said, when seeking to understand why an assailant commits an act of violence, it seems reasonable to examine the environmental and experiential factors that may contribute to the likelihood of violent acts occurring - not to excuse the wrong behavior, or shift blame, but to understand what factors are behind it, and how to treat and limit this type of violence from occurring to others.

I agree with Dan. I feel the culture that perpetrators are exposed to has a bearing, even among the conservative circles. When our son was investigated, there were some very disturbing things about the parochial school (they used to attend) that was brought to light. Stuff the boys talked about like it was "normal" to talk/act that way. It was even more disturbing when the investigating detective was like "yeah, this is common. I hear this quite often."

i agree.
i am sorry to read continued internal conflict regarding SIN.
charts are not perfect, they can be helpful for reference, that’s it. they should be presumed incomplete.

if i created the chart, i would word it so the RED = SIN. it started in The Garden.

Wade,
i’m trying to grasp your focus. i’m convinced you are sincere.
i’m convinced everyone posting on these topics of heinous serial predatory sins+crimes agrees; words are getting in the way.

SIN loves division and thrives on it. SIN also loves people not paying attention.

- - -

we had a few acquaintances in our lives that were police officers, lawyers, a judge or two. mostly through my husband’s work. a few traffic violations. etc.

(i believe) it’s important to keep in mind, those whose work is dedicated to dealing with society’s crimes, are going to be mostly subjected to all aspects of crimes and sins, on a daily basis. they will “commonly” see+hear the underbelly in close range.

it’s a personal problem they must deal with, burnout is a recognized problem.
first responders experience personal trauma, it affects world view. not everyone can do these jobs.
counselors are often in counseling - a psych pro once told me.

consider the source.

most speak honestly. all speak with personal experience, limitations and bias.

[Josh]

That being said, when seeking to understand why an assailant commits an act of violence, it seems reasonable to examine the environmental and experiential factors that may contribute to the likelihood of violent acts occurring - not to excuse the wrong behavior, or shift blame, but to understand what factors are behind it, and how to treat and limit this type of violence from occurring to others.

I agree with Dan. I feel the culture that perpetrators are exposed to has a bearing, even among the conservative circles. When our son was investigated, there were some very disturbing things about the parochial school (they used to attend) that was brought to light. Stuff the boys talked about like it was "normal" to talk/act that way. It was even more disturbing when the investigating detective was like "yeah, this is common. I hear this quite often."

A culture of "if you're well connected, smooth, and well-liked, you can get away with doing things you shouldn't do" tells perpetrators they can get away with whatever they want.

And paired with a culture of "Make fun of and criticise those who aren't as popular and from less well liked family" means they'll pick victims that fit that profile. And even if they get caught - they say the victims are crazy, mentally ill, asked for it, etc. etc.

Look at the Harold Herr debacle - he claimed his wife was crazy, and then claimed his children were too and that they all made everything up. And everybody just went right along with it and believed it.

[steve-in-kville]

A culture of "if you're well connected, smooth, and well-liked, you can get away with doing things you shouldn't do" tells perpetrators they can get away with whatever they want.

And paired with a culture of "Make fun of and criticise those who aren't as popular and from less well liked family" means they'll pick victims that fit that profile. And even if they get caught - they say the victims are crazy, mentally ill, asked for it, etc. etc.

Look at the Harold Herr debacle - he claimed his wife was crazy, and then claimed his children were too and that they all made everything up. And everybody just went right along with it and believed it.

Some groups across the anabaptist spectrum are a lot worse at this than others.

Money would go along with this, in my observation (and experience). The wealthy are kinda left alone. The poor folk typically get picked on. I think there is a mentality that you must be rich because you are a great Christian, therefore God has blessed you with wealth.

The opposite would be true of the poorer members.

Again, some churches are worse than others. For that matter, the church we attend now used to have a reputation for this maybe 20+ years ago. The diversity we have now did away with that, I believe.

[Josh]

Some groups across the anabaptist spectrum are a lot worse at this than others.

Money would go along with this, in my observation (and experience). The wealthy are kinda left alone. The poor folk typically get picked on. I think there is a mentality that you must be rich because you are a great Christian, therefore God has blessed you with wealth.

Yes. Some people perceive the poor as "bad managers".

Interestingly Jesus said the exact opposite.

The opposite would be true of the poorer members.

Again, some churches are worse than others. For that matter, the church we attend now used to have a reputation for this maybe 20+ years ago. The diversity we have now did away with that, I believe.

It seems the trap of wealth & prestige seems to lead a group of Christians deeper and deeper into this trap. Eventually, the end is disaster. Interestingly the New Testament already teaches us all of this.

[Time4Truth]

Look at the Harold Herr debacle - he claimed his wife was crazy, and then claimed his children were too and that they all made everything up. And everybody just went right along with it and believed it.

Some go "along with" the predator's 'con' story because of ignorance, some are in denial and yet others are hiding the same corrupt life style. Frequently this evil can be traced the whole way to the top! Any wonder it is protected...and lied about??

Ignorance, denial and evil have destroyed many lives in the CAs. So much so that the testimony of the Anabaptist culture has been sadly tarnished. The corruption has metastasized to the degree that mere discussion is powerless to reverse the course. Ownership and repentance are the only recourse to alter the judgement that has been determined on perverse religion.

[randalm]

Ernie,

Utilizing those two sentences from the meeting notes does little in the way of providing clarity to the central issues represented. I trust that the meeting notes you received also reflect the three main requests that were made:

#1: A revision of the June 17th statement – “The board of directors has not authorized any settlement payments and has no interest in covering this up.” This statement stood alone for several months while CAM was aggressively pursuing victims for settlement.

#2: Public acknowledgement to that money was paid to victims under the NDA agreement. (Necessary because of CAMs denial of its use, and its negative impact on victims).

#3: A truly independent, third-party investigation (i.e., G.R.A.C.E.) to restore trust in the organization.

The “unresolved” portion of that meeting had to do with knowledge of Jeriah’s actions as being described as “sexual activity with young men.” I was making a “strong” appeal that a more accurate sentiment around the knowledge would be the “sexual abuse of a minor.”

As to the “conjecture” – you may be correct. I should have stated that "publicly addressing their use of the NDA appeared to influenced their call for a meeting." Almost immediately following the comments at the symposium, our four-month-old request for a meeting was granted. Here’s some background.

Throughout the summer and fall preceding the symposium, multiple requests for a meeting to discuss the harmful nature of the NDA around the cash settlements went unheard. These appeals were made directly to the Interim Haiti Country Supervisor, and the Chairman of the Board. The point was made that the document that we were referencing to as an NDA was simply a “legal document” to officially and legally record the transaction, and that the cash settlements were the best way in Haitian culture for them to respond. Assurance was given that the cash settlements in no were in no way tied to silence as an NDA.

The reports coming directly from victims (from different areas), multiple American missionaries, and victim advocates were strikingly different. CAM was offering cash in exchange for their willingness to sign an NDA. Victims were feeling pressured, being approached frequently by CAM’s attorneys on the streets, at their homes etc. Some victims were requesting to be left alone, and it seemed like an incredibly harmful power differential for these victims to be approached by CAM’s attorneys to quickly settle without the ability to have legal representation themselves. Eventually, in November of 2019, a signed copy of the agreement was provided from out of Haiti. The spin put on the document as not being an NDA quickly fell apart.

I also agree that not all members of CAM are responsible for one (or several) persons mistakes within CAM. However, the decision to pay victims cash settlements was a motion that was voted on at the board level of CAM. It is likely that not all board members understood that an NDA was attached to the money at the beginning. But the defense of its use happened at the highest levels of CAM leadership. Furthermore, the fact that CAM has been unwilling to have an independent investigation speaks to the "heart" of the organization as much as the NDA itself. I agree, many innocent, godly individuals serve at every level within CAM. In CAMs efforts to “care” for the victims, the protective stance eventually inflicts harm on the victims. Despite the organizational failures around Jeriah, CAM has maintained close contact with the victims, establishing a committee to make contact with the victims and “care” for their needs. As the offending organization, contact with the victims is inappropriate, unethical, and unsafe as it places the victims directly in harm’s way as this story demonstrates.

The correct course of action today is the same as it was in the summer of 2019 - for CAM to truly remove themselves from the “drivers’ seat” through an independent investigation, trust the investigative process with a commitment to follow the recommendations given. It’s really a simple path forward, but very difficult because it requires CAM to relinquish control of the narrative. I would hope that the investigative process could also provide repair to the whistleblowers. With striking similarity whistle blowers(victims, native Haitians, and American missionaries) have been labeled as unstable, and untruthful. Relinquishing control of the narrative would also give a chance for the reputations and dignity of these individuals to be publicly restored.

Here's the NDA in case its existence is in doubt. Unless something has changed, multiple victims in Haiti are still bound by this document today.

Respectfully,
Randal

[Josh]

randalm,

I would hope that the investigative process could also provide repair to the whistleblowers.

In other words, you’re looking for a payday for people like yourself?

(Keep in mind I am one of the original whistleblowers.)

[Signtist]

randalm,

I would hope that the investigative process could also provide repair to the whistleblowers.

In other words, you’re looking for a payday for people like yourself?

(Keep in mind I am one of the original whistleblowers.)

In what world does "repair" have the same definition as "payday"?

[randalm]

There are those who have borne a cost, especially in Haiti(I personally have not). I would argue that the "paydays" in Haiti should have/should come to complete stop. Given the fact that CAM has retained legal counsel in Haiti and the US, no victim in Haiti should ever be approached by CAM without them first being given the same privilege to ensure that the process is not exploitive.