OT Nephilim and the ‘sons of God’

[JohnL]

In Genesis 6, Ezekiel 32, and Numbers 13 the Nephilim are mentioned. Do y’all have any thoughts about them?
No AI answers just personal perspectives.

[JohnL]

Bumping this. I’m interested in perspectives on these verses. Neto? Mike? Judas M? Robert? Barnhart? Ernie? Others?

[Bootstrap]

The Bible Project has some good resources on the Nephilim.

https://bibleproject.com/podcasts/giants-land/

Some videos:

[Swiss Brah]

Nephilim were the spawn of the bene elohim and the daughters of men. Read up on 1 Enoch for a more detailed account.

[barnhart]

I didn't make the time to watch the two videos, but I put a lot of weight on Jesus' perspective and he said angels neither marry nor are given in marriage which I understand to mean they are not sexed in the way we understand. This leaves me sceptical of human/angelic hybrids and bloodlines. Maybe the human genome was broader and more complex so as to allow bigger, stronger people at some point.

[Praxis+Theodicy]

I think it's generally argued/understood/posited that the Nephilim were the products of interbreeding between humans and spiritual/heavenly beings ("angels" or "demons", although "angels" would not be the right term here). Many ancient culture have legends of demons who tried to seduce humans (Incubi and Succubae) in order to have offspring.

The apocryphal Books of Enoch (Enoch is the great-grandfather of Noah) purport to tell stories from this pre-flood time, when rebellious legions of the Heavenly Host (the demons that followed Satan instead of remaining in the Heavenly court of Yaweh) came down to influence history by introducing temptations to humanity. They teach women how to beautify themselves with makeup and they teach men how to craft weapons (swords) out of metals. They interbreed with human women and produce offspring that are like superhumans, usually very strong and usually particularly larger than the average human at the time. They are referred to as "giants". Their status as half-heavenly-being, half-human is akin to the demigods of Greek and Roman mythology, like Herucles, Perseus, and Achilles.
This practice of mixing angels and humans was abominable to God, and was the primary reason that God chose to flood the world, although the Bible notes that the Nephilim existed pre-flood and post-flood (Genesis 6:4). When Joshua sends scouts into the promised land, they report Nephilim there (Number 13:33).
Although the Book of Enoch is an apocryphal text, there are Christian traditions that include it in their canon (The Ethiopian Orthodox Church is the one I know off the top of my head; they have a very large canon). The text was apparently well-known during the time of Jesus and the apostles. Peter references an idea that was originated or popularized by the text (1 Peter 2:2), and Jude quotes the text directly (Jude 1:14-15).

A book I've always enjoyed and been intrigued by is the science-fiction novel Many Waters by Madeline L'Engle. This book is an imaginative look at the pre-flood time. In it, two brothers get sent back in time and space to the cradle of civilization before they flood. They end up interacting with many of the people groups there. One of them gets involved with a tribe of godless families while another ends up being helped by Noah and his family. Noah is concerned at the changing culture and the pressures of the society around them. Nephilim (which, in the novel, are unrighteous angels) and Seraphim (in the novel, these are angels who act righteously and are still aligned with Yaweh) regularly interact with the humans. The Nephilim are preoccupied with taking human wives who can bear them children, while the Seraphim are a bit more distant from human society, and are preoccupied with watching the actions of the Nephilim and seeking to guard and protect righteous families like Noah's. Most people see it a a great honor for their daughters to be wed to a Nephilim, and Noah is worried that these sort of cultural values are affecting his own family. Another detail I remember from the novel is that all the humans are very short compared to the modern-day protagonists. I think the implication is that, eventually, genetics from the super-human Nephilim made their way into most of the human race over the millennia and resulted in a humanity that was slightly taller than they were at creation.

I think what is notable is that the little we know of the Nephilim from the Bible (not including apocryphal sources) is that the very scant references include a lot of information.

The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

This verse seems to indicate that the source of the Nephilim were the product of the "sons of God" when the "went to" the "daughters of humans" and had children with them. There are many ways to interpret this verse. You could argue that it was righteous, God-fearing men intermarrying with Godless, unrighteous families. This wouldn't make a lot of sense since a "people of God" (Israel) had not yet been established. I think most scholars agree that this text is talking about something akin to what the Book of Enoch reports: that fallen angels were interbreeding with human women, producing superhuman offspring, Nephilim.
Another thing is the note: "They (the Nephilim) were the heroes of old, men of renown." This addition seems to be indicating and acknowledging the existence of demigod "superheroes" in the mythological histories of many great civilizations. Just like modern culture has Superman and Captain America, ancient civilizations told stories of "superheroes" like Herucles, Beowulf, or Gilgamesh. The Hebrew scriptures have these stories too, but they are markedly different. The Book of Judges is essentially a book of legendary heroes, but these great men get their power from Yahweh, not from their circumstance of being a demigod. This stands in stark contrast to the other cultures. The Hebrew scriptures say "Yeah, we know about Herucles, Gilgamesh, etc. They are not great heroes; they are the result of evil beings mixing with unrighteous peoples. They are not to be revered. Power comes only from the one true God."

"So they gave out to the sons of Israel a bad report of the land which they had spied out, saying, 'The land through which we have gone, in spying it out, is a land that devours its inhabitants; and all the people whom we saw in it are men of great size. There also we saw the Nephilim (the sons of Anak are part of the Nephilim); and we became like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight" (emphasis added).

This passage seems to be of historical interest. The writer is saying to his contemporaries "You know the Anakim people? They are descendants of the Nephilim that inhabited the land before us." (Goliath is usually thought to be an Anakim). Anakim are the sons of Anak, who was (apparently) a powerful man of legend, notable for his large stature. This passage indicates that the origin of Anakim and his family line was Nephilim blood.

[JohnH]

I didn't make the time to watch the two videos, but I put a lot of weight on Jesus' perspective and he said angels neither marry nor are given in marriage which I understand to mean they are not sexed in the way we understand. This leaves me sceptical of human/angelic hybrids and bloodlines. Maybe the human genome was broader and more complex so as to allow bigger, stronger people at some point.

Well, it’s described as something similar to an abomination and the flood is portrayed as genociding all such half human hybrids. According to tradition, Goliath was the last of such.

[Swiss Brah]

If you don‘t like the sexual angle, another line of thinking has the elohim tinkering with human (and animal) DNA to create those hybrids.

Check Michael S Heiser - The Unseen Realm, Doug Van Dorn - Giants or every other Blurry Creatures episode for more content. And don‘t forget, the Smithsonian steals the giant bones.

[JohnH]

If you don‘t like the sexual angle, another line of thinking has the elohim tinkering with human (and animal) DNA to create those hybrids.

Check Michael S Heiser - The Unseen Realm, Doug Van Dorn - Giants or every other Blurry Creatures episode for more content. And don‘t forget, the Smithsonian steals the giant bones.

Heiser’s stuff is really interesting.

[barnhart]

This looks like a lot of speculation beyond what we can know, unless you are willing to canonize Enoch which I don't feel good about. Be cautious about making certain things God has left unclear. It's Ok to say "we don't know that."