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temporal1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 28, 2025 7:19 am

“Wishing to be friends is quick work, but friendship is a slow-ripening fruit.”
—Aristotle, "Nichomachean Ethics"

Friendship “is most necessary with a view to life,” Aristotle says. He even goes on to claim that “no one would choose to live” if they were without friends, and that even those with other goods (wealth, power, and so on) need friends (perhaps even more than the rest of us). Friendship, for Aristotle, is one of the necessary components of a good life; it is what makes life worth living. We are better off for having friends, even if we are contemplatives, as friends enable us to be better. Young people show this natural inclination for friendship by forming quick friendships — though, for reasons we will see, these friendships tend not to last. “A human being is by nature more a coupling being than a political one,” Aristotle writes in his discussion of friendships between husband and wife.

The key distinction one needs to remember from this book is three-fold (with one layer of complication). Friendship comes in three varieties: friendship of utility, friendship of pleasure, and complete friendship. This mirrors a distinction in things that are lovable: things that are useful, things that are pleasurable, and things that are noble.

First, we have friends of utility. A friend of utility is a friend that one has because they provide something for you: social connections, material wealth, opportunities for career advancement. These friendships are brittle and often asymmetric. One friend typically provides more value than the other, at some point it becomes pointless for one friend to continue the friendship. When circumstances change, the friendship rarely adapts. Instead, it ends.

Second, friends of pleasure. These are friends who provide you with pleasure, broadly construed. Aristotle believes that these are especially prevalent among the young, who tend to pursue pleasure more zealously than the old. Like friendships of utility, friendships of pleasure are unstable. What provides pleasure for me now may not later — beauty fades, my interests shift, and the craving for more intense and concentrated pleasures grow.

Third, we have complete friendships. These are friendships in the fullest sense of the term. Friends, in this scenario, are perfectly alike in virtue. This kind of friendship is highly restricted. Those who are not sufficiently virtuous, whom Aristotle calls ‘base’, are unable to form these kinds of friendship. Only the virtuous can have full and complete friendships, friendships which go beyond utility and pleasure.

temporal1 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 28, 2025 5:48 pm Good topic.
Knight once pointed out his view that Jesus reflected a lot from the ancients.
i think most forget about or don’t think about how so much in history happened before Jesus’ time on earth.

i wish Knight were present, on or off forum. i haven’t heard from him since the early pandemic days.
i used to try email. no notice the account was closed. no response at all.

That was an interesting virtual friendship!
Our first encounter was harsh, not public. Eventually, we got to know each other. Then, fond friendship.

i advise my family to leave doors open for unexpected experiences. i’ve seen so many unexpected things happen. positive and negative. remember, the unexpected can be positive! too often the default is to expect negatives. that’s inaccurate.

The virtual world can remind we are spiritual beings.

i have recently given my grdaughter a couple of approachable books on stoicism.
Fully expecting she will outread and outpace me.

Meditations
by Marcus Aurelius

Breakfast with Seneca: A Stoic Guide to the Art of Living
by David Fideler

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