Apostolic Truth vs. Modern Inclusion: The Christian Call to Transformation

[temporal1]

I thought about this thread when I read Deuteronomy 19 this morning. Several times, the Israelites were exhorted that if a person sinned against another, they were not to pity the wrongdoer, but rather to mete out justice. Is there a principle there that we ought to remember?

They weren't told to punish despite their pity - they were strictly prohibited from pitying the wrongdoer.

So interesting. So true. Jesus made His truth APPEAR “easy” while, in human terms, reality proves otherwise.
Evil seeks to distort and mislead.

Al Mohler and Joe Rigby go further in their analysis of the sin of empathy by theorizing women are inclined to this sin by nature which is why men are dictated to be leaders in the Bible.

While I am more Complementarian than Egalitarian, this feels like something that could easily be weaponized to defend terrible things. I bring this up to serve as an example of what can happen when we "create" sins to address actual error. Al Mohler is not an internet kook in his mother's basement but the president of the largest and most influencial Southern Baptist seminary.

https://albertmohler.com/2025/02/19/joe-rigney/

Also interesting, i want to study this, esp now, when the current culture is now struggling with “systemic” bias against men.
Men have mighty challenges! Throwing the baby out with the bathwater isn’t helpful.

One caveat, Jesus never asked for anyone’s credentials, diplomas or stats. He is impressively interested in “everyman”.
If anything, He is biased toward the less credentialed.

Many on this forum appreciate both, in (what i find to be) profound ways.
There are too many to name, but Neto and HK, are examples of learned men without prejudice of common men.
Inspiring. Robert shares profound range. i remember lesterb asked for more from him. me, too. i respect his decisions.

Being human, seeking Truth, is not an easy task.

It is really funny/intriguing how Jesus is for all. It isn’t empty words and promises. That’s what made Him so insufferable to kings.
Jesus’ all means all. (Not a human construct!)

Imagine being king, with Jesus going around freely giving His victory to prisoners and slaves!
This cannot be! They hate it.

[temporal1]

^^i consider myself very guilty of the sin of empathy.
i’ve praised God for years+years i am not wealthy or powerful. o.what a mess i’d make!
a disaster for our children, i’m sure. a disaster everywhere. i can barely make a decision for forum polls!
no.no.no. not me. not good.

still. i STRAIN for and seek Truth. if i have a saving grace, that might be it. i’m not counting on it.

our now adult children sometimes fret they weren’t born into wealth.
i urge them to look around and count their blessings.

i do not envy wealthy parents. a very hard job. not for me.

i have special appreciation for wealthy parents who are able to “produce” decent children.
i urge my family to do the same.

i might be like joe with hunter. a wreck.

[JohnH]

Al Mohler and Joe Rigby go further in their analysis of the sin of empathy by theorizing women are inclined to this sin by nature which is why men are dictated to be leaders in the Bible.

While I am more Complementarian than Egalitarian, this feels like something that could easily be weaponized to defend terrible things. I bring this up to serve as an example of what can happen when we "create" sins to address actual error. Al Mohler is not an internet kook in his mother's basement but the president of the largest and most influencial Southern Baptist seminary.

https://albertmohler.com/2025/02/19/joe-rigney/

It should be obvious men and women are prone to different sins; an obvious one is that men commit far more murder, which is obviously a sin.

I don’t see a problem with making such observations.

[R7ehr]

Al Mohler and Joe Rigby go further in their analysis of the sin of empathy by theorizing women are inclined to this sin by nature which is why men are dictated to be leaders in the Bible.

While I am more Complementarian than Egalitarian, this feels like something that could easily be weaponized to defend terrible things. I bring this up to serve as an example of what can happen when we "create" sins to address actual error. Al Mohler is not an internet kook in his mother's basement but the president of the largest and most influencial Southern Baptist seminary.

https://albertmohler.com/2025/02/19/joe-rigney/

Empathy is no more a sin in and of itself than drinking is.
Empathizing and drinking the wrong thing is what is wrong.

It feels like a manufactured subject in response to accusations of a lack of compassion, on a subject where they don’t want to have compassion on.

If women do have a weakness that swung the leadership to men, there are better arguments than empathy.

[temporal1]

Al Mohler and Joe Rigby go further in their analysis of the sin of empathy by theorizing women are inclined to this sin by nature which is why men are dictated to be leaders in the Bible.

While I am more Complementarian than Egalitarian, this feels like something that could easily be weaponized to defend terrible things. I bring this up to serve as an example of what can happen when we "create" sins to address actual error. Al Mohler is not an internet kook in his mother's basement but the president of the largest and most influencial Southern Baptist seminary.

https://albertmohler.com/2025/02/19/joe-rigney/

Empathy is no more a sin in and of itself than drinking is.
Empathizing and drinking the wrong thing is what is wrong.

It feels like a manufactured subject in response to accusations of a lack of compassion, on a subject where they don’t want to have compassion on.

If women do have a weakness that swung the leadership to men, there are better arguments than empathy.

tell me more, tell me more ..

[JohnL]

That’s an interesting pov to chew on. I might have to get an extra pack of Beemans.

Al Mohler and Joe Rigby go further in their analysis of the sin of empathy by theorizing women are inclined to this sin by nature which is why men are dictated to be leaders in the Bible.

While I am more Complementarian than Egalitarian, this feels like something that could easily be weaponized to defend terrible things. I bring this up to serve as an example of what can happen when we "create" sins to address actual error. Al Mohler is not an internet kook in his mother's basement but the president of the largest and most influencial Southern Baptist seminary.

https://albertmohler.com/2025/02/19/joe-rigney/

Empathy is no more a sin in and of itself than drinking is.
Empathizing and drinking the wrong thing is what is wrong.

It feels like a manufactured subject in response to accusations of a lack of compassion, on a subject where they don’t want to have compassion on.

If women do have a weakness that swung the leadership to men, there are better arguments than empathy.

[Neto]

I don't know if this is the best discussion thread to plop this into, but here it is.

Theological Paternalism or Ecclesiological Oxymoron? MKC, MWC, and AMBS in Partnership Tension
Girma Bekele, PhD
Author info:
A consultant in Christian Mission Studies and Visiting Professor of Missional Leadership in Postmodern World Tyndale University College & Seminary, Toronto

https://girmabekele.medium.com/theologi ... 7be0126ab1

[Thomas_muntzer]

I don't know if this is the best discussion thread to plop this into, but here it is.

Theological Paternalism or Ecclesiological Oxymoron? MKC, MWC, and AMBS in Partnership Tension
Girma Bekele, PhD
Author info:
A consultant in Christian Mission Studies and Visiting Professor of Missional Leadership in Postmodern World Tyndale University College & Seminary, Toronto

https://girmabekele.medium.com/theologi ... 7be0126ab1

What a great article, thanks for sharing it brother Neto. It's very relevant and interesting for me to see how the more liberal groups in America clash with Africans on these kinds of issues.

[Neto]

I don't know if this is the best discussion thread to plop this into, but here it is.

Theological Paternalism or Ecclesiological Oxymoron? MKC, MWC, and AMBS in Partnership Tension
Girma Bekele, PhD
Author info:
A consultant in Christian Mission Studies and Visiting Professor of Missional Leadership in Postmodern World Tyndale University College & Seminary, Toronto

https://girmabekele.medium.com/theologi ... 7be0126ab1

What a great article, thanks for sharing it brother Neto. It's very relevant and interesting for me to see how the more liberal groups in America clash with Africans on these kinds of issues.

This isn't the first case of a former 'mission field' urging the wayward conference that was instrumental their reception of the Gospel. Were the missionaries who went out the more doctrinally correct ones in the source congregations? Or is this Biblical insistence on being grounded in truth the sole work of the Spirit of God, as the message came with the power of God into those formerly dark places? Perhaps they (the "third world" churches) should send missionaries to the West, where the message is growing weak and indistinct. Somehow those who accepted the Gospel became spiritually strong. May they remain so, even in the face of the misrepresentation in things that have been posted by the North American Mennonite churches with whom these African brothers were associated.

[JohnH]

One inescapable conclusion is that EMM was a transitional institution, part of a larger, transitional church, and indeed their mission activity in Ethiopia played a big part in the Mennonite Church (Old MC)'s transition away from whatever it was in the 1950s to whatever it became in the 1970s.

However, the churches they have planted seem to not be transitional. They are, instead, squarely theological-conservative Mennonites, except without the transitional flavour that almost all such churches have. It was inevitable that, eventually, there would be a lack of harmony between the new churches, which are composed of seekers who are not seeking a way to transition to become gradually more assimilated and modernist, and the old sending churches, who seem to be an institution dedicated to the gradual transition to being as modernist and progressive as possible for their members.

A smaller microcosm of this can be observed in some churches planted by Beachys: years later, the handful of converts in places like Cuba or Central America are still wearing old-fashioned Beachy style attire, and feel uncomfortable when the missionaries they got to know come and visit decades later and seem to have drastically changed.