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Outsider wrote: ↑Sat Nov 08, 2025 8:31 pm https://www.youtube.com/shorts/d-5fG3zCjCs

Never heard that particular line of reasoning before, but unconvincing and does not add much to the discussion. The stars are quite distracting.

The "kept from the hour" argument is much more convincing in my book. But don't worry, we all go at the same time anyway.

1 Corinthians 5:7
Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.


He died on passover. And whether you agree or not, it's what I believe. Nowhere, except in the doctrines of men, does the Revelation or the Bible state that believers will not be on the Earth to witness during the tribulations. In fact, the two witnessess are the last of the tribulations the world must face. The tribulations are not for those with the seal of God on the foreheads. It's for the world, and those outside of God's salvation.

Seems a rather eccentric line of argument. There are better arguments both ways in my opinion. But nothing conclusive - perhaps intentionally imo. I aim to be ready for His coming and at the same time keep the signs of the tribulation in mind, not making a conclusion on which happens first - and keeping in mind not to be alarmed nor jump to conclusions about various developments in the world, knowing that "such things must happen, but the end is yet to come" (Matt. 24:6). And so we must remain faithful, trust God, and not become unduly alarmed, knowing that many people have jumped way out ahead of themselves and made fools of themselves. Watch, have your opinions, discuss your views, fine; but don't get obsessed with the end times and thus get all bent all out of shape.

What's with the spooky light show?!?

Anyway, when I was taught the Pre-Trib 'catching up' doctrine (growing up), that text was said to refer to the 144,000 Jewish witnesses/preachers sent out to evangelize those who had never heard the Gospel, and to all those who would respond to their message in faith. (Those who had heard, and had rejected Christ, God's Chosen One, could no longer choose to believe - the Holy Spirit would no longer summon them.)

(I no longer hold to the Pre-Trib position, but not for the reason he gave.)

I am a pan-millennialist.

I am a pro-millennialist.

Outsider wrote: ↑Sat Nov 08, 2025 8:31 pm https://www.youtube.com/shorts/d-5fG3zCjCs

I don't think the symbolism of the visions recorded in the Book of Revelation is clear enough to make sure decisions on what the future will hold.

JimFoxvog wrote: ↑Wed Dec 17, 2025 8:09 am

Outsider wrote: ↑Sat Nov 08, 2025 8:31 pm https://www.youtube.com/shorts/d-5fG3zCjCs

I don't think the symbolism of the visions recorded in the Book of Revelation is clear enough to make sure decisions on what the future will hold.

Wife: but it is certain Who holds the future.