Let's Make Society Great Again

[Ernie]

Yes, Let's Make Society Great Again by Nathan Zook.
https://churchplantersforum.org/yes-let ... eat-again/

This summer we invited an interesting person to address this topic at the Church Planters Forum.

For those on MN who don't understand how a Christian can be intensely interested in politics, while abstaining from participation in the mechanics of civil government, I introduce Dr. Nathan Zook, Political Science Professor at Montgomery College near D.C., who is also the pastor at a conservative Mennonite church.

https://www.montgomerycollege.edu/acade ... staff.html

If you want to comment in this thread, you must first listen to the complete recording.

[JohnH]

I didn't listen to it (yet), but I did enjoy stopping into D.C. circa 2019 when I was working near there and meeting up with Mr. Zook and going for a nice long walk around the national mall. I did not know he was a pastor / professor now!

[barnhart]

Well said. I agree with him.

[ohio jones]

Aside from minor historical inaccuracies in the references to Marpeck, very well presented. I appreciate how he can find ways to engage with society while remaining focused on the Kingdom.

I did not know he was a pastor / professor now!

Are you sure he wasn't then?

[barnhart]

Aside from minor historical inaccuracies in the references to Marpeck...

A one who enjoys history, I feel compelled to ask what inaccuracies. I had never heard the log plume details.

[JohnH]

Aside from minor historical inaccuracies in the references to Marpeck, very well presented. I appreciate how he can find ways to engage with society while remaining focused on the Kingdom.

I did not know he was a pastor / professor now!

Are you sure he wasn't then?

If he were, I did not know he was a pastor / professor then, either.

[ohio jones]

Aside from minor historical inaccuracies in the references to Marpeck...

A one who enjoys history, I feel compelled to ask what inaccuracies. I had never heard the log plume details.

And so one of the people I talked about was the early Anabaptist in Austria, Pilgram Marpeck. And he was a civil engineer who felt convicted when he heard about an Anabaptist who was burned at the stake, not too far from his office where he worked in the city of Strasbourg and he joined the Anabaptist movement, got rebaptized, pretty much lost all his career, his reputation in that city.

That was in his hometown of Rattenberg, Austria (not Strasbourg, France); he left there in January 1528 and after a few months in Moravia ended up in Strasbourg in the fall of that year.

The one town he brought in water and helped to fix their textile industry and bring in water to get their power mill power looms working. And several hundred years later, that city became a major Belgian tapestry place.

This probably refers to the fulling mill he built in Canton Appenzell or St. Gallen around 1535. Details of this are a bit sparse; Jörg Maler made reference to it when being interrogated, which is how we know about it. I'm not sure what Belgian tapestries were doing in Switzerland, but that area did have a large linen industry for quite a while.

And another place he went, he helped devise ways to get logs down to the city to help construct houses and so forth.

He actually did this twice; first for Strasbourg, 1530-1531, and about 15 years later for Augsburg. I understand the wood was used primarily for firewood, but construction lumber would have been an additional use.

The minor historical nitpicking, of course, does not detract from the main point that Marpeck was able to use his professional skills to improve the lives of the people around him, while also writing and preaching and shepherding the church. An excellent example to use for this subject.

[Ernie]

Marpeck was able to use his professional skills to improve the lives of the people around him, while also writing and preaching and shepherding the church. An excellent example to use for this subject.

One does not need college education in order to devise and engineer extensive projects. Old Orders and Ultra conservatives have proven this over and over. And they have used their skills to bless many people in their communities and around the world who are not part of their church. Here is an article as an example. https://www.citizen-times.com/story/new ... 633656007/

However, many Old Orders and Ultra conservatives have concluded that if developing one's professional skills includes going to college, then it should be abstained from. If a person went to college prior to joining the church, then the church can benefit from those skills. But if it means going to college after one is part of the church, then it is discouraged or even forbidden. Many of these same people have a negative opinion of Marpeck, because he worked in civil government. I think their thinking is somewhat misguided. But we have to acknowledge that their offspring have continually filled the pews of less conservative and more progressive churches and provided many teachers and leaders for these churches. Many people in the less conservative and more progressive churches have trouble getting their offspring to really care deeply about spiritual things or spend weeks in disaster relief work and rebuilding.
So even though I think they are misguided, they still have something of value to contribute to the Church that should not be sneered at.

[donnyto989]

What stood out to me was his insistence that abstention from state power doesn’t equal disengagement or apathy. That distinction often gets lost, especially when politics becomes the primary moral language in our culture.

[barnhart]

What stood out to me was his insistence that abstention from state power doesn’t equal disengagement or apathy. That distinction often gets lost, especially when politics becomes the primary moral language in our culture.

I agree with this. This is also the part of the thesis of J.H. Yoder's "Politics of Jesus" (insert appropriate warning about his personal character) that I found compelling. He characterizes the Jewish responses to Rome as Withdrawal (the Essenes) Revolution (the Zealots) and Cooperative (Herod faction) while pointing out Jesus openly refused these approaches. He confronted without revolution, he separated from power without withdrawal, he submitted without captive cooperation. This is an area of theology that seems ripe for an Anabaptist writer and thinker to step into. There is at least one thesis for a book there.