Elon musk and his sons

[JohnH]

I’m aware of your opposition to IVF, but I’m also am observing that you’re also bringing up Musk’s ability to shoot rockets into space in a conversation that at one point was about Musk’s views on genetics and his fertility.

You basically just proved my point, I think. In a meta-discussion about how you feel we don't denounce Musk enough, you once again tell me that I didn't denounce Musk enough.

I have frequently said I evaluate someone's character before I want to trust their leadership or books they read. I would not put much stock in a theological text Elon Musk writes, or care too much what he says about family formation or ferility.

It must be acknowledged that he is clearly one of the foremost people in the world when it comes to electronic payments or to space exploration. I do not see why this is such a difficulty for you. Personally immoral people have made all kinds of scientific or societal advances. In fact, most technological advances were done in the pursuit of warfare. Surprisingly, this isn't a chage I can levy against Musk's desire to explore space (and his rather odd goal to inhabit Mars).

I am capable of seeing people as complex individuals. For example, I find your own moral views very repugnant, but I don't feel a need to bring that up in every conversation with or about you. Wouldn't it be a bit absurd if I did?

[Grace]

That’s exactly my point—no one has outright excused Musk’s behavior, but the way it’s being discussed is completely different from how similar behavior would normally be treated here. When someone else engages in serial promiscuity or has multiple children out of wedlock, they’re condemned. When Musk does it, the response is much more muted, or deflected into discussions about how he at least provides for them. That’s the double standard I’m pointing out.

I have said repeatedly how much I do not agree with his personal morality, and how much I don't like the constellation of things around him (like the Babylon Bee) that excuse it or look the other way. Others on MN have as well.

That has no bearing, however, on the fact I think he's very good at figuring out how to get rockets into space.

I appreciate that you personally disapprove of Musk’s morality, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that when it comes to Musk, the tone and framing of the discussion here is very different than when other people engage in the same behavior. Musk’s actions don’t spark the same moral outrage, and when they’re discussed, the conversation quickly shifts to deflections about his wealth, intelligence, or achievements. Do you disagree that this pattern exists?

Patterns works both ways. For four years when it came to the Biden family, when their vile, disgusting, immoral behavior and crimes were brought up there was plenty of deflection and defending them etc. There was no moral outrage from many here. I was repeatedly attacked for pointing out some of the disgusting shenanigans of this crime family who lied an unbelievable number of times. There even was an attack thread started centered around me and comments I made about Biden. No one seemed bothered that Biden exhibited borderline pedophile behavior, with all his sniffing and inappropriate touching of little girls and young women. In my opinion Biden's behavior was no less reprehensible than Elon Musks. All the fuss about Musk's children, yet no one was bothered when a beautiful little girl was not even acknowledged by her grandparents.

LOL..as my young adult children say to me when I complain more than they want to hear. "Do you want cheese with your whine?"

[ohio jones]

... the sexual morays of our society.

I'm not sure Eelon Musk has any of those.

[Szdfan]

I’m aware of your opposition to IVF, but I’m also am observing that you’re also bringing up Musk’s ability to shoot rockets into space in a conversation that at one point was about Musk’s views on genetics and his fertility.

You basically just proved my point, I think. In a meta-discussion about how you feel we don't denounce Musk enough, you once again tell me that I didn't denounce Musk enough.

I have frequently said I evaluate someone's character before I want to trust their leadership or books they read. I would not put much stock in a theological text Elon Musk writes, or care too much what he says about family formation or ferility.

It must be acknowledged that he is clearly one of the foremost people in the world when it comes to electronic payments or to space exploration. I do not see why this is such a difficulty for you. Personally immoral people have made all kinds of scientific or societal advances. In fact, most technological advances were done in the pursuit of warfare. Surprisingly, this isn't a chage I can levy against Musk's desire to explore space (and his rather odd goal to inhabit Mars).

I am capable of seeing people as complex individuals. For example, I find your own moral views very repugnant, but I don't feel a need to bring that up in every conversation with or about you. Wouldn't it be a bit absurd if I did?

The topic of this thread is specifically about Musk's morality. From the OP:

Elon Musk is about to have his thirteenth child with his fourth "baby mama," a supposedly "conservative" online influencer.

Conservative figures are quick to celebrate, calling him "pro-life." He isn't; even dogs do the same.

Conservatism without Christ is as perverse and godless as progressivism.

I don't think that discussing Musk's morality and ethics in a thread specifically about his morality is a two-minute hate or demanding constant condemnation. It's literally what this thread is about.

And yet here you're trying to shift the conversation away from the OP.

It must be acknowledged that he is clearly one of the foremost people in the world when it comes to electronic payments or to space exploration.

So I don’t disagree that immoral people have made scientific advances. But that’s beside the point. The point I'm making is whether Musk’s personal morality is framed differently than it would be for others. I think there's plenty of evidence in this thread -- including from you -- that there is some sort of double standard or reframing the conversation away from criticism. I think you'd have a point if I was constantly bringing up Musk's morality in threads that were about Space X or Tesla or the other technological innovations. But this is a thread where his morality is the topic.

The issue isn’t whether Musk can be good at rockets and bad at personal morality at the same time—the issue is that when his morality comes up, people often change the subject to his intelligence. Even in a thread in which the OP is specifically about Musk's morality, there is a drive to shift the conversation away from that topic to his genius at building rockets and robots and such.

That’s the inconsistency I’m pointing out, not a call for total condemnation.

My question is why do you think that's happening?

[Szdfan]

... the sexual morays of our society.

I'm not sure Eelon Musk has any of those.

At least I now know that one of your mores is that you read what I write.

[Szdfan]

I have said repeatedly how much I do not agree with his personal morality, and how much I don't like the constellation of things around him (like the Babylon Bee) that excuse it or look the other way. Others on MN have as well.

That has no bearing, however, on the fact I think he's very good at figuring out how to get rockets into space.

I appreciate that you personally disapprove of Musk’s morality, but that wasn’t my point. My point is that when it comes to Musk, the tone and framing of the discussion here is very different than when other people engage in the same behavior. Musk’s actions don’t spark the same moral outrage, and when they’re discussed, the conversation quickly shifts to deflections about his wealth, intelligence, or achievements. Do you disagree that this pattern exists?

Patterns works both ways. For four years when it came to the Biden family, when their vile, disgusting, immoral behavior and crimes were brought up there was plenty of deflection and defending them etc. There was no moral outrage from many here. I was repeatedly attacked for pointing out some of the disgusting shenanigans of this crime family who lied an unbelievable number of times. There even was an attack thread started centered around me and comments I made about Biden. No one seemed bothered that Biden exhibited borderline pedophile behavior, with all his sniffing and inappropriate touching of little girls and young women. In my opinion Biden's behavior was no less reprehensible than Elon Musks. All the fuss about Musk's children, yet no one was bothered when a beautiful little girl was not even acknowledged by her grandparents.

LOL..as my young adult children say to me when I complain more than they want to hear. "Do you want cheese with your whine?"

If you felt that Biden was unfairly defended, wouldn’t the best response be to hold everyone—including Musk—to the same standard? If selective outrage was a problem then, why is it not a problem now?

[Franklin]

Conservatism without Christ is as perverse and godless as progressivism.

Please remember that Abraham and Moses didn't have Christ and were decent people. The issue isn't religion, the issue is culture. Modern culture is worse than the culture of Sodom and Gomorrah, so all members of modern culture are evil.

[temporal1]

^^Coincidentally, i think this aligns with Franklin’s post above. Cultural Christians.

I'm not sure Eelon Musk has any of those.

i was motivated to find Eelon’s view of Christianity.
i was surprised to find he thought anything about it at all. This article seems credible, i think many today fall in this camp.

Christian Science Monitor / Elon Musk now calls himself a ‘cultural Christian.’ What does that mean?
https://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2 ... rd-dawkins

i suppose a basic question could be, would Eelon be welcome as a visitor at (anyone’s) church? Could he become a member?
What would he be expected to do to become a member? Would the pastor or anyone talk with him about his children and their mothers? Would they be welcome?

How is unrepentant carnal sin of all visitors+members addressed? Is it? Is it celebrated?

i believe i’m consistent wrt husband-father roles/responsbility, regardless of socio-economic status; i don’t believe Jesus carves out exceptions for wealth or poverty, except, notably, the wealthy generally have a harder time with salvation. i find it encouraging that Jesus holds up the same moral standards for everyone, He offers His Victory to all!! Incredible. And, true.

Honestly, i think this is what makes the powerful fear Him so much. He offers His Victory to all, including slaves. 1Cor15:57
The powerful can’t handle it. It’s too much for them.

i see it as a positive for any man to recognize and care for his children and their mothers, Christian or not.
Being a responsible husband and father is not the sole domain of Christians or even of religious people. Atheists can have high personal standards. Many do.

i don’t agree with the premise Eelon is treated differently by members on this forum.
just because a thing is said or thought, doesn’t make it so.

one of jeremy’s siggy lines:
"Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest"
-- "The Boxer," Simon & Garfunkel

People read differently and think differently. i’m content with where i am. “still trying” i’d say.

[Robert]

That’s exactly what I’m doing. I’m pointing out a pattern I’ve observed in how Musk’s behavior is discussed compared to others.

Do not point out someone else's pattern, just share your perspective. Others will share theirs. You have as much right as anyone else to share your perspective. It is okay for someone to be wrong and post something you think is wrong. Just post what you think is right and shake the dust off your sandals and move on.

You can say Joe Blow is scum. I can say Joe Blow is a great guy. I do not need to correct you and you do not need to correct me. Just state your opinion, facts, or perspective and allow others to do the same.

[Robert]

Modern culture is worse than the culture of Sodom and Gomorrah, so all members of modern culture are evil.

Here is an example.

I think there are some good things about modern culture. I agree there are areas of badness, but I also see areas of goodness.

Franklin can have his opinion and I can state mine.