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How should we then read it? Ham went into Noahs tent and saw Noah in the nude? And for that Noah cursed Ham‘s son? How does that make sense? I assure you I do not get the jollies from indecency but the Bible contains many passages that show us human depravity. We can‘t just skip the parts we don‘t l...

Wife: I don’t think I agree with that interpretation (I just assumed Canaan was a chip off the old block), but I definitely agree that the curse was on Canaan and not any of Hams other children. I just chose the title because I didn’t want to give the spoiler alert in the title and that’s how I alw...

The curse was on Canaan not Ham so that theory is DOA. Noah cursed Canaan because Ham „uncovered Noah‘s nakedness“ which is a euphemism for having intercourse with Noahs wife / his mother to assert dominance (think of Absalom taking David‘s harem), and Canaan was the incestuous issue of that interc...

The curse was on Canaan not Ham so that theory is DOA. Noah cursed Canaan because Ham „uncovered Noah‘s nakedness“ which is a euphemism for having intercourse with Noahs wife / his mother to assert dominance (think of Absalom taking David‘s harem), and Canaan was the incestuous issue of that interco...

Bootstrap wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2026 1:43 pm

Swiss Brah wrote: ↑Wed Jun 24, 2026 1:35 pm 1 Enoch.

Did you get there via Jude?

No via Michael Heiser. He talks about it a lot in his content and also put out a Reader‘s Companion on the first 71 chapters.

1 Enoch.

It does seem angels pre date the creation of our world. The Hebrew term in Job 38:7 is not actually “angels.” Mal’akh (מַלְאָךְ) = messenger, angel Bene Elohim (בְּנֵי אֱלֹהִים) = sons of God, heavenly beings In Job 38:7, the beings who rejoice at creation are called bene elohim, not mal’akhim. I s...

barnhart wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2026 6:44 pm

Swiss Brah wrote: ↑Thu Jun 11, 2026 4:32 pm The bene elohim were already created when God set the pillars of the earth.

Interesting. Do you find scriptural support for this?

Job 38.7 is the prooftext.

Gemeinschaft Evangelisch Taufgesinnter. This group here?, the same ones founded by Fröhlich? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostolic_Christian_Church_(Nazarene) https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bund_Evangelischer_T%C3%A4ufergemeinden The strict branch of the Fröhlich denomination. You have to realize ...

The bene elohim were already created when God set the pillars of the earth.