Highest calling?

[Wade]

The ministry we are talking about is a political party.

No no, the political party isn't a ministry.. it's just a way to spread the Gospel, the ministry he mentioned is a protestant ministry for Evangelism. Just so people won't get confused..

I just wonder who is talking about Evangelism without obedience, and why that has become a topic? I certainly never meanth to advocate Evangelism apart from following Jesus Christ, now Evangelism in obedience is much more important topic, how are we doing with that? I just shared the Gospel with someone who was sleeping at the salvation army about 45 mins ago, boy it wasn't easy.. he was getting cranky at one point.. but I felth compelled to do so and I pray the Lord will bless it for him. I am not saying that to boast, and I don't have those encounters daily or anything, but those opportunities sometimes arise and I wonder if any of you have experience with such encounters?

I think there are possibly lots that could share things about spreading the gospel but it seems like something that is not encouraged to air unless maybe it is within the local church? Less response gets given to when people share especially compared to anything political or otherwise... (I mean sharing about evangelizing on MN.)

But anyway since we don't have a church it is nice to share and hopefully a blessing and encouragement to others:
We just has our widow neighbor over the other day and we had opportunity to share the gospel since she said she likes music so much and is in a choir, so we sang a hymn for her.
She is from England and told us that any Christian groups outside the state churches their growing up for her meant very dead legalism...? She is a retired university professor that is very concerned about proper socializing so she asked questions over and over trying to find out if we were legalistic and things like if we were against musical instruments, etc. It was challenging the way she was so forward but a blessing to get to share honestly. She stayed much longer than she said she would when she had other plans...

A couple days later she said she couldn't stop thinking about our visit and really enjoyed her time with us. And she said we can expect visits from others neighbours now too as she has been telling the neighbourhood about her nice visit...

We really don't want to be like entertainment either... Neither are we to invite persecution. But if anyone can be encouraged to invite a neighbour over to share the gospel in a gentle way from this than I pray it has served it's purpose.

[KingdomBuilder]

But how Biblical is that exactly? The Apostles and disciples were not persecuted for their visible obedience, they were persecuted for their audible obedience.

It's not an either or. Strictly talk is merely that. When you live a life of devotion, you'll contrast the world around you. That sparks interest in others, and it's great to tell them things when they show an interest.

You can't really say that the Apostples were persecuted only for their tongue. That breaks up the issue too much.

By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Is love passing out tracts and talking a good talk? (Maybe for some it is). We know Jesus loves us, not by what he said, but by what he did.

I've had friends approach me about spiritual things because they recognized and mentioned the fruit of my new self- without me even telling them I'd committed myself to the Lord.
I think evangelism comes through obedience, not the other way around.

[Paul]

I just wonder how come when people are so exact about following Jesus and obeying Him, very precise in obeying the Biblical way we should do that, why is it that on the point of Evangelism we suddenly get a brainfreeze to say that our Evangelism is our life and walk? It sounds really noble and holy to 'let your life do the talking', but it is infact not what the Lord Jesus Christ commands and the Bible teaches.
The 3000 on pentecost were preached at, it was an incredible event that God blessed with such an increase for His kingdom, because of the audible and literal preaching of Jesus Christ and Him crucified to unbelievers. And that bold preaching went on, and the Church grew incredibly fast. Our calling hasn't changed since then, it's just that our message, our attitude towards Evangelism and courage to be bold is nothing like the Apostles - including my own sadly. But to cover it up (and I have heard this many times) we say that we really aren't that good with words, so we rather let our life do the talking. And boy if someone touches that, people get angry and insist that not everyone is called to be a fulltime Evangelist etc. I am not saying we should all be fulltime Evangelists, but are we doing what we can? I love what Wade shared above, that's a really good place to start with sharing! Are we praying for courage and boldness to share His Word, and are we looking for opportunities to do so? Are we doing what we can and do we care enough about a lost world that is dying at a rapid rate (over 150,000 people die every day), to reach out with the Gospel?
I am also not saying we shouldn't live a holy life, ofcourse we should cling as close to the Lord and His Word as we possibly can, but that should never be seen as fulfilling our duty towards the Lords command for "Evangelism" because souls are simply not saved by watching anyone but by hearing the Gospel preached, repenting from sin, believing in and following Jesus Christ.

[Paul]

It's not an either or. Strictly talk is merely that. When you live a life of devotion, you'll contrast the world around you. That sparks interest in others, and it's great to tell them things when they show an interest.

You can't really say that the Apostples were persecuted only for their tongue. That breaks up the issue too much.

By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.”

Is love passing out tracts and talking a good talk? (Maybe for some it is). We know Jesus loves us, not by what he said, but by what he did.

I've had friends approach me about spiritual things because they recognized and mentioned the fruit of my new self- without me even telling them I'd committed myself to the Lord.
I think evangelism comes through obedience, not the other way around.

But didn't the Apostles go out to preach? They didn't wait around till people approached them because of the way they lived. Ofcourse they lived holy lives, but many of the people they preached to - the 3000 for example - probably didn't even know that, they just came bursting on the scene and the Holy Spirit used their preaching to convict and save people. You see it's not about you or your holy life, it is about the Lord Jesus Christ that has given His life for us, He can change sinners and save them if we are humble and obedient enough to share His Gospel and let Him do the work.

[MaxPC]

I think there are possibly lots that could share things about spreading the gospel but it seems like something that is not encouraged to air unless maybe it is within the local church? Less response gets given to when people share especially compared to anything political or otherwise... (I mean sharing about evangelizing on MN.)

But anyway since we don't have a church it is nice to share and hopefully a blessing and encouragement to others:
We just has our widow neighbor over the other day and we had opportunity to share the gospel since she said she likes music so much and is in a choir, so we sang a hymn for her.
She is from England and told us that any Christian groups outside the state churches their growing up for her meant very dead legalism...? She is a retired university professor that is very concerned about proper socializing so she asked questions over and over trying to find out if we were legalistic and things like if we were against musical instruments, etc. It was challenging the way she was so forward but a blessing to get to share honestly. She stayed much longer than she said she would when she had other plans...

A couple days later she said she couldn't stop thinking about our visit and really enjoyed her time with us. And she said we can expect visits from others neighbours now too as she has been telling the neighbourhood about her nice visit...

We really don't want to be like entertainment either... Neither are we to invite persecution. But if anyone can be encouraged to invite a neighbour over to share the gospel in a gentle way from this than I pray it has served it's purpose.

Well done, Wade.

The English university professors are a challenging group when faith enters the conversation because of the culture in which they were raised and trained. I saw a great deal of this during my stint in Scotland. You did an outstanding job of living the witness for her which is another way of "preaching". Quite often the richest mission field is our neighborhood and including those who live right next door to us.

Perhaps this simple definition of legalism and comparison to Free Will will be helpful the next time you have an encounter with her: I found this simple comparison broke through to the most hardened and educated of secularists.

Legalism is a rigid set of rules used to police members/others in a group.

Conversely Faith choices are about the Free Will trust and acceptance of God's teachings as a path that enlightens us and brings us eternal hope and joy.

She might enjoy reading GK Chesterton, an English author who converted to Christianity and who, with humor, points out the illogical assumptions of secularists and atheists. He's quite appreciated in English academic circles, and is often referred to as the patron of common sense for his ability to highlight the holes in secularists' logic.

[KingdomBuilder]

Paul,
Sorry if I've sounded or am about to sound a bit touchy with this topic, but perhaps I am.
In the Baptist church of my upbringing, all that mattered was if you were, somehow, evangelizing. There was the feeling that if you weren't out evangelizing, you weren't doing your part. Go ahead and look at the fruit that usually produces. It speaks for itself.

So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12 to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

Ephesians 4:11
Now, the scripture is clear that evangelism is given ability. We know not everyone has the same abilities My point? When we put so much emphasis on evangelism, or any one gift (tongues, Pentecostals!), people will try their very hardest to emulate that gift to the point that they may very well be denying the gift that the Spirit has given them for their most effective role in the body. Obviously some have the gift to evangelize, but what if I don't? Am I to beat myself up trying to mimic these people? What if instead my main role is to work on the hearts of those inside the church? Am I missing something in that?

Now, am I saying just because I don't feel that evangelism is my primary calling that I should have noting to do with it? Of course not. We all, to varying degrees, can play different roles in the body at different times.

You see it's not about you or your holy life

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying... I'll leave that point for now.



Edit: Just understand that I don't think evangelism always exist explicitly in the form of the spoken word. I believe we are all to evangelize. Not only with words, and not only without.

[Wade]

Thank you for the advice Max!

KB and Paul I really like the zeal I think I can see from both of your posts.

[KingdomBuilder]

I don't think the Bible uses the term "highest calling". This is the closest I can think of:

And one of them, an expert in the law, asked a question to test Him: “Teacher, which command in the law is the greatest?”

He said to him, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and most important command. The second is like it: Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets depend on these two commands.”

Loving the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind implies worshiping him, serving him, obeying him, seeking his mind on all things. Loving your neighbor as yourself implies both loving service and evangelism.

And evangelism is about discipling people to do the same.

I agree with Boot.

[cmbl]

Definitely not uncommon. I wonder if these people even recognize error in their lifestyles?
To effectively evangelize, we must know scripture, and to know is to do it.
So my hunch is...

I share from my experiences, you share from yours. And the experiences are somewhat similar.

...that many of these people rely too heavily on second-hand faith (meaning they're not searching and study the Word on their own). Another factor is some people simply aren't willing to die to their old nature; they deceive themselves.

Second-hand faith and not enough reading/studying the Bible can be a problem.
It's also possible to have "enough" reading/studying the Bible, but never be bothered by actually having to do what it says. I had read/heard the judgment scene in Matthew 7 multiple times before it "hit me."

I'm reticent about saying "those other people don't study their Bibles enough." Now maybe they don't. But if that's their problem, then that's certainly a problem I don't have, and I can then thank God that I'm not like other men*. But if the problem is that people read the Bible but overlook parts of it that contradict their theological system or their sins, well that's a problem that I'm susceptible to, and I should examine myself, beat my breast, and ask God to be merciful to me.

*Just to be clear: I don't mean to accuse you of that attitude, KB; I'm saying that can easily be my attitude.

[cmbl]

...why is it that on the point of Evangelism we suddenly get a brainfreeze to say that our Evangelism is our life and walk? It sounds really noble and holy to 'let your life do the talking', but it is infact not what the Lord Jesus Christ commands and the Bible teaches.

I agree with you here. For example, I don't think that buying a beggar a sandwich inherently constitutes obedience to "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations" any more than I think silently walking past the beggar and offering a prayer constitutes obedience to "Give to everyone who begs from you."

Loving the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind implies worshiping him, serving him, obeying him, seeking his mind on all things. Loving your neighbor as yourself implies both loving service and evangelism.

And evangelism is about discipling people to do the same.

I agree with Boot.

Me too.