Amish Salve-maker in Jail, Facing Federal Prison

[Wade]

I would guess this Amish man may be from a more conservative Amish group. I read recently that a Schwartzentruber man said "if they require that of us, we just won't do it." I think we need to pick our battles carefully - we need to differentiate between issues relating to economics and issues relating to religion. Being required to following labelling laws has nothing to do with religion. Improper marketing by a small Amish business is no different than improper marketing by a billion dollar conglomerate - it is all an attempt to sell product.

i would like to only use "natural healing methods" if I could be convinced that the products work as well as or better than the drugs from the pharmaceutical companies. I find that I have to choose who I will work with, my doctor, or someone whose credentials I don't know. My doctor is one who doesn't mind looking at alternatives to supporting big pharma - he will advise of lifestyle changes that can be made. However, he doesn't in particular like Dr. Google and who can blame him?

i think I understand what you are saying, Wade, and I don't disagree but I just don't have enough time or ability to sort through all of Dr. Google to determine who and what is right. I understand the whole idea of overkill by the FDA and others. However, if I expect my doctor to help me, I need to pay attention to what he says and avoid too much mixing of various types of remedies. We did recently resort to the burdock leaf treatment along with the salve that goes with it, for treatment of a dog bite, but only after I was not happy with the results my wife was obtaining from antibiotics. The injury healed with the burdock leaf treatment, but it may also have healed with time without the burdock treatment.

[RZehr]

The injury healed with the burdock leaf treatment, but it may also have healed with time without the burdock treatment.

This is one of the problems I have with natural remedies. There just doesn't seem to be much double blind trials on this stuff. And without a baseline, these natural remedies just seem like a crap shoot to me.

Keep in mind any natural health product can never be tested to the point of approval. There are too many variables within natural remedies. Each plant source can have a different amount of nutrients or toxins for medicinal purposes within depending on how they are grown. No two apples that are grown are exactly alike. And in order to reach certification the substance or product has to fit in very controlled guidelines to meet FDA regulations.

If there is too much variability in these things to be accurately tested, then how can they be considered medically consistent for people? Sounds like one batch might work and another batch might not be effective because of variability.
I'm not defending big pharmaceutical products. But it seems to me that they are held to a higher standard of proof than natural remedies. Of course there are cheaters - there is in any business.
But we don't each have enough time to prove every single medicine in life, so we depend on regulations and testing and trials done by others. If someone cheats, that doesn't mean that we should do without testing.

[RZehr]

After my rant, I should add that I hope he isn't tossed in jail. That seems ridiculous.
And I hope he is profitable with his business.
And I wish the FDA would figure out a way that natural medicines could be tested and marketed profitably.

[Biblical Anabaptist]

I suppose it is OK to take peoples money for this http://www.giawellness.com/2/products/aqua-gia/i-h2o/ as it is not a "medication"

[Hats Off]

And it is the users who are "radiant." i suppose it is somewhat like the whole "Radionics" and dowsing issue - you have to believe that it will work or it won't. or it will work but whose spirit makes it work?

[temporal1]

OP, Page 1 -

http://www.wkyt.com/content/news/WKYT-I ... 15635.html

I noticed this story before, but I just took the time to read it for the first time. A picture on one of the articles rang a bell. Sure enough, I'm selling this chickweed salve in my store.

.. Since the 2015 indictment, Girod who fired his appointed attorney and is now representing himself has been trying hard to clear his name.

The Amish farmer filed a motion to dismiss his case, citing a lack of due process, lack of standing, and lack of jurisdiction. A judge denied the motion and set a status conference back in August.

"Sam is a very literal person. This hearing didn't say, 'Hey Sam you've got to be here.'
It just said there's a status hearing in your case and he thought he didn't have to show up.
It was a mistake on his part, but because he is not an attorney, he just doesn't understand," explained Oh.

A warrant then issued for Girod's arrest.

The Bath County Sheriff wrote a letter to those involved, saying he is concerned about the "ongoing ruthless and relentless attack against one of his constituents." The letter went on to say Girod was in the protective custody of his office.

Girod was considered a fugitive for about five months before being arrested at his farm in early January. He is now in jail without bond awaiting his trial scheduled for late February.

From the way this reads, Girod is in jail because he failed to appear at a status hearing.
There are different points to be reconciled about labeling, ingredients, inspections, BUT, had he appeared for the status hearing, these things may have been worked out by now.

People who do not show up for court hearings get the label, "fugitive," not, "confused one."

Any rookie attorney could help him understand that he needs to appear, he needs to comply with labeling requirements, and, he needs to allow inspections.

As mike and appleman have noted, it's very likely he has been given respect from the court; and, his product(s) may be successfully marketed (as many others are.) Girod needs basic legal counsel.

This is how it appears to me, from the OP.

i understand the family is emotional and traumatized, but, from the way this reads, the entire situation seems manageable. i truly hope it is.

[Josh]

Where it says on a piece of paper "You are summoned to appear at such and such a place and such and such a time" that seems pretty easy to understand.

If you don't understand that or refuse to comply, the sheriff or U.S. Marshall will come and pick you up, store you at jail until your next court date, where the judge will explain exactly why you need to appear and how to avoid ending up in jail again.

Ultimately, if someone is claiming they can cure cancer, they should be well-informed enough to show up to court for a lawful summons.

[Judas Maccabeus]

The injury healed with the burdock leaf treatment, but it may also have healed with time without the burdock treatment.

This is one of the problems I have with natural remedies. There just doesn't seem to be much double blind trials on this stuff. And without a baseline, these natural remedies just seem like a crap shoot to me.

Keep in mind any natural health product can never be tested to the point of approval. There are too many variables within natural remedies. Each plant source can have a different amount of nutrients or toxins for medicinal purposes within depending on how they are grown. No two apples that are grown are exactly alike. And in order to reach certification the substance or product has to fit in very controlled guidelines to meet FDA regulations.

If there is too much variability in these things to be accurately tested, then how can they be considered medically consistent for people? Sounds like one batch might work and another batch might not be effective because of variability.
I'm not defending big pharmaceutical products. But it seems to me that they are held to a higher standard of proof than natural remedies. Of course there are cheaters - there is in any business.
But we don't each have enough time to prove every single medicine in life, so we depend on regulations and testing and trials done by others. If someone cheats, that doesn't mean that we should do without testing.

This appears to be about claims and labeling, something that the FDA is dead serious about. His "problem" is he is not slippery enough to cleverly work with the holes in existing regulation that allows all sorts of things, as long as no actual health claims are made by the seller/producer. Anyone else can make those sorts of claims, as in BA's water example above.

It's a slippery business......IIRC many of the drug reps that I have met are former cheerleaders/beauty pageant types. Go figure. I won't even talk to them.

J.M.

[EdselB]

[
A few examples in the salve category:
Unker's Salve
Union Salve
Porter's Salve....

Notice this from Porter's salve home page: "The original name was changed from Porter's Pain King Salve to its current name, due to a request from the FDA. The reference to liniment was made because this salve was formulated from the Porter's original product, liquid Porter's Liniment."....

Now, there are natural substances that are not able to be sold because of they are naturally hazardous to humans - such as one of the ingredients in Girod's TO-MOR-Gon salve. Another example of a potentially hazardous natural product is real sassafras root, which is alleged to have blood thinning and carcinogenic properties, and is not legal to be sold as a tea product. It is typically sold as a "craft" item. But real sassafras root is not available commercially for that reason. You can buy it on Etsy or eBay. Drink at your own risk.

Porter's Liniment Salve--My mother was just talking about that the other week. It was a staple item in my grandparents' medicine cabinet. Grandpap used it to draw out things. He also went out to the woods each spring to cut sassafras root to make a tea to thin the blood. Drank some myself when I was young. Rather tasty. However, none of these beat the claims that I read in Die Botscahft about that virtues of B&W. Good for what ails you and helps you otherwise.

[temporal1]

when i was young, each year seemed to bring yet another terrible disease, chicken pox, measles, mumps, scarlet fever, fear of polio .. families were bigger, so, each disease would typically run through each household. i remember being so ill at times i feared death (probably fever, fevers could run high.)

our parents would get sassafrass root to make tea to use as medicinal relief, and a treat.
i can almost smell/taste it now. a pleasant memory associated with spring, and getting well.

i'm not recommending! just remembering. i had not heard before now it could be harmful.
so far, so good here.