#6. I'm one of those people living in a country with hardly any Anabaptist churches, so there is no where for me to visit or join locally. So it probably makes me a #5, as well
I think the survey is a good idea, but unless people write in this thread and tell me where they fit, as a non Mennonite who lives in a pretty liberal secular country ( the UK), it is hard for me to know who the Conservatives are. For example, l can probably pick out the #3s here, l'd put Robert and Bootstrap there. But the differences in people of a more Conservative leaning are lost on me, I wouldn't be able to peg where lesterb who started this thread fits, I'd guess at #2, but it would be just a guess.
I suppose l have to ask myself whether this matters, l guess it does matter to me, because although l mainly lurk, l do read and learn here a fair bit, and there are a few posters here who confuse me because their online voice doesn't seem very Mennonite to me.
Where do you fit?
- Josh
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Re: Where do you fit?
I voted #1, mostly since that would be my preference.
My home congregation fits #3. The other churches I visit wouldn't fit on this list since neither of them are pacifist or nonresistant.
My home congregation fits #3. The other churches I visit wouldn't fit on this list since neither of them are pacifist or nonresistant.
0 x
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Re: Where do you fit?
OP, Page 1
i have learned, the commonalities that drew me have not changed, these are significant (to me, and, i think, to Jesus) but additional commonalities have been added, some things remain as puzzles, i.e., i'm still learning, and undecided, as to whether this would be for me. i would not say i would "never" submit to any CM fellowship, i don't know what the future holds; not for me, not for my family.
what i have learned has changed my view of how i approach scriptural study, and, it has changed how i interact and counsel my family.
this is important, to me, as their lives are "open" as to the jouney(s) that lie ahead for them.
on MD, i have learned of CM's who were formerly Catholic, formerly of various Protestant denominations, formerly without formal denom experience, etc. i have read from and of former CM's who changed and left CM life altogether. there are ones who claim labels (from all denoms) but who do not live those claimed labels, by their own admission.
i know, what i see in my family might change drastically, after i pass.
i want them to be prepared to make wise decisions, to allow themselves to be open to God's Will.
this includes the possibility of seeking CM membership. this may be "the future," as more+more folks seek to leave unsatisfactory secular life/more secular life for more depth of understanding.
faith is organic, hopefully, not static, but ever-growing.
so labels are helpful, in limited ways. possibly, they are more convenient than accurate?
unfortunately, they can also be misused.
in another thread, Page 1:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=140&p=3016#p3016
i believe, if CM's would disappear from MN, the central interest would disappear (the glue that holds the family together.) i have witnessed and experienced families "falling apart" after losing a central, loved and respected leader. this is sad. i wonder if Anabaptists, with importance on brotherhood, being Christ-centered, may experience this less often? less severely?
no one lives forever, so, what holds the group together after significant loss?
i also don't believe the noisiest in any group represent, or control, the group.
typically, just the opposite!
one worldly example from many years ago -
i worked with a woman who formerly coached college female athletes.
understanding strategy+dynamics in relationships was important to her.
she advised, when working with couples, or families, in the public, typically, one will be "most open," most engaging, most outwardly interested. but, she counseled, do not dismiss the quiet one that stands back, says nothing. these, she said, are the final decision-makers. these will control outcomes.
this resonated with my family and life experience, and, certainly, as she suggested, in the working world. it is consistent with scriptures.
----------
disclaimer: i consistently have trouble with polls.
i have not yet chosen, i'm thinking about it, reading of others' understandings and choices.
so far, i could not "choose 1." (i.e., choose only 1.)
i would choose 3, because of theology; but, i never-before thought of it that way for myself;
i would choose 6, because i no longer feel "settled" in membership in any group.
i believe i have a lot of company (in the world, and world-wide) of not feeling like i "fit in" anywhere.
many in the world, and possibly amongst Mennonites, feel their church(es) have left them, rather than they have left their church(es.)
the Lutheran church i lovingly attended years ago, is not one i would choose for membership today.
i wish i could discuss what i understand today with the pastor of those years, i would love this!
so would he. i doubt he would pastor that church under present circumstances.
forgive so many words.
(for me) an entry poll would only be helpful if there were a way to "chart" changes in "who we are" along the way. myself as an example, on the day i registered on MN, i thought of myself as a Lutheran, and i was content with that. because i read scriptures, and, had read a bit about Mennonites, i noticed different commonalities in thinking that i wanted to learn more about ..lester:
I wish we could have a poll similar to this for every new member to answer.
But maybe if each of us could participate in this survey, we'd have a better idea of who we really are talking to.
i have learned, the commonalities that drew me have not changed, these are significant (to me, and, i think, to Jesus) but additional commonalities have been added, some things remain as puzzles, i.e., i'm still learning, and undecided, as to whether this would be for me. i would not say i would "never" submit to any CM fellowship, i don't know what the future holds; not for me, not for my family.
what i have learned has changed my view of how i approach scriptural study, and, it has changed how i interact and counsel my family.
this is important, to me, as their lives are "open" as to the jouney(s) that lie ahead for them.
on MD, i have learned of CM's who were formerly Catholic, formerly of various Protestant denominations, formerly without formal denom experience, etc. i have read from and of former CM's who changed and left CM life altogether. there are ones who claim labels (from all denoms) but who do not live those claimed labels, by their own admission.
i know, what i see in my family might change drastically, after i pass.
i want them to be prepared to make wise decisions, to allow themselves to be open to God's Will.
this includes the possibility of seeking CM membership. this may be "the future," as more+more folks seek to leave unsatisfactory secular life/more secular life for more depth of understanding.
faith is organic, hopefully, not static, but ever-growing.
so labels are helpful, in limited ways. possibly, they are more convenient than accurate?
unfortunately, they can also be misused.
in another thread, Page 1:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=140&p=3016#p3016
Ernie:
Reminds me of the story that goes something like this...
A young evangelist approached an elderly gentleman on the street and asked him,
“Brother, are you saved?”
The elderly man didn’t respond for awhile but got out a piece of paper and began writing.
After awhile he handed the paper to the young evangelist and said,
“Here are the names of my neighbors and the people I live with, work with, and go to church with. Ask them if I am saved. I could tell you anything.”
This elderly man had walked with Jesus long enough to know that not "verbal testimony" by itself is not everything.
And yet, we should "always be prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks us a reason for the hope that is in us; and do it with gentleness and respect,"
(fwiw, my view is) MN is a Mennonite forum, but not a distinctly Conservative Mennonite forum (this, as i understand from Robert, admin., and, formerly, Hans.) however, it is a place largely led and influenced by CM's, and, to me, this is central to its (relative) longevity on the very young internet.lester:
Maybe we aren't even a Mennonite forum.
Or maybe there are only a few conservative Mennonites and we should stop pretending that this forum represents any kind of such identity.
i believe, if CM's would disappear from MN, the central interest would disappear (the glue that holds the family together.) i have witnessed and experienced families "falling apart" after losing a central, loved and respected leader. this is sad. i wonder if Anabaptists, with importance on brotherhood, being Christ-centered, may experience this less often? less severely?
no one lives forever, so, what holds the group together after significant loss?
i also don't believe the noisiest in any group represent, or control, the group.
typically, just the opposite!
one worldly example from many years ago -
i worked with a woman who formerly coached college female athletes.
understanding strategy+dynamics in relationships was important to her.
she advised, when working with couples, or families, in the public, typically, one will be "most open," most engaging, most outwardly interested. but, she counseled, do not dismiss the quiet one that stands back, says nothing. these, she said, are the final decision-makers. these will control outcomes.
this resonated with my family and life experience, and, certainly, as she suggested, in the working world. it is consistent with scriptures.
----------
disclaimer: i consistently have trouble with polls.
i have not yet chosen, i'm thinking about it, reading of others' understandings and choices.
so far, i could not "choose 1." (i.e., choose only 1.)
i would choose 3, because of theology; but, i never-before thought of it that way for myself;
i would choose 6, because i no longer feel "settled" in membership in any group.
i believe i have a lot of company (in the world, and world-wide) of not feeling like i "fit in" anywhere.
many in the world, and possibly amongst Mennonites, feel their church(es) have left them, rather than they have left their church(es.)
the Lutheran church i lovingly attended years ago, is not one i would choose for membership today.
i wish i could discuss what i understand today with the pastor of those years, i would love this!
so would he. i doubt he would pastor that church under present circumstances.
forgive so many words.
Last edited by temporal1 on Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:30 am, edited 5 times in total.
0 x
Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.
”We’re all just walking each other home.”
UNKNOWN
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Re: Where do you fit?
Other. The charism of my particular group within the CC shares a great deal of common ground with the Anabaptist understandings of Scripture. As such, I find a great deal of wisdom within Anabaptist thinking and approach to life. Also, you're just a terrific group of Christians I enjoy visiting.
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
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Re: Where do you fit?
This is a fairly astute observation!temporal1 wrote: i believe, if CM's would disappear from MN, the central interest would disappear (the glue that holds the family together.) i have witnessed and experienced families "falling apart" after losing a central, loved and respected leader. this is sad. i wonder if Anabaptists, with importance on brotherhood, being Christ-centered, may experience this less often? less severely?
Conservative Anabaptists don't have any well-known names in general Christendom.
Yet most Christians in the west have heard of them in one way or another.
They are known for their communities, not their individuals.
Many westerners can credit their concept of religious freedom and separation of church and state - in part - to conservative minded Anabaptists who were unwilling to compromise on their strict religious beliefs, and who took Jesus seriously when he said, "My Kingdom is not of this World."
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
Re: Where do you fit?
I'm curious why you didn't vote #2.Ernie wrote:I voted #6.
0 x
Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3
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Re: Where do you fit?
Yes...it sounds like you could certainly fit into #2 ernie as well as your (Corey's) "intentionalist" category.mike wrote:I'm curious why you didn't vote #2.Ernie wrote:I voted #6.
By the way, I do like the distinction of intentionalist - and would probably put myself in that category if it was available. I've often labeled this group "free radicals" (borrowing the name from molecular science), referring to non-conformed folks within the Anabaptist stream who, as you mentioned, remain somewhat unbound to strictly prescribed church standards, yet choose their non-conformed path based on the personal conviction that comes from the influences and affiliations in their life.
I checked #2 by the way, as a person committed to non-conformity in most areas of my life. My wife and daughters also practice the veiling and modest dress standards...but I will confess I have had a somewhat inconsistent relationship with electronic media over the years, ranging from years with no television, to a limited use of it (always supportive of the standards of the churches we have related to - some which have prohibited TV, others that have not). I have usually used radio and internet (since its inception - not radio's inception, but internet's inception. I'm not that old ).
0 x
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Re: Where do you fit?
I voted #3
(Does a dance because us non-plain Mennos are allowed to do that)
(Does a dance because us non-plain Mennos are allowed to do that)
0 x
“It’s easy to make everything a conspiracy when you don’t know how anything works.” — Brandon L. Bradford
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Re: Where do you fit?
Terrific post, Ernie. Very informative. Is there a website or book written by Anderson that discusses these streams?
Ernie wrote: I would probably land in the category that Anderson calls "Intentionalist".
Anderson has identified the following streams within the Anabaptist faith tradition.
Most of these streams are here today primarily because of a strong ethnic tie, not because of some ideological tie.
A. Amish
B. Hutterites
C. Swiss/German Mennonites
D. Dutch Mennonites
E. Brethren
F. Apostolic Christian Church
G. Bruderhof
H. Intentionalists
Intentionalists are those who are not bound to the ethos of a particular faith tradition. They can pick and choose what they want from the Anabaptist world as well as from Christendom otherwise, (until someone comes along and freezes everything). Intentionalists can question, discuss, decide matters that are not up for discussion in other conservative Anabaptist settings. Interestingly, all of the groups from A-G were intentionalists in their early years.
0 x
Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Re: Where do you fit?
We may sneak a jig when a horsefly nips us out in the cow pasture behind the barnSzdfan wrote:I voted #3
(Does a dance because us non-plain Mennos are allowed to do that)
0 x
Remember the prisoners, as though you were in prison with them, and the mistreated, as though you yourselves were suffering bodily. -Heb. 13:3