I thought I would move this from the war games thread to a separate thread and see if others have an interest in this topic. I think I wandered off into competition which covers a much broader scope than war games. Basically, what are your thoughts on competing with other humans that in the end results in winning or losing ? What is different in how a Christian should approach competitions of sorts that differs from the world ?
This was the post I made in the other thread -
Are war games any different than other games or activities in life from a competition point of view ? Is there any scriptural support for competing with others in anything ? Some say competition has various pros that result in improved living for mankind as if these improvements could not be had outside of competing with others. Competition also brings about some bad also. What God especially hates often surfaces from winning some competition - pride. Anxieties occur over earthly things that negatively affect the ego. If our enjoyments are based on winning, then we are not experiencing true unspeakable joy that is not based on circumstances. War itself is a competition where someone will win and the other lose. Even being more pious than others is or can become a competition. So competitions with others require quite a different mindset than how the world views competing.
As believers our warring is not to be against flesh and blood but in the spirit realm. Yet some of the biggest wars are those fought in churches where Christians compete with one another to win their points. If these were struggles against heresy then they would appear to be correct to do but often they are about human preferences.
Someone once said and I have heard it often repeated - 'Show me a good loser and I will show you a loser'. Well, is that how a Christian should respond to competitions ? I ask that because I have spent much of my life in some way or another competing with others, other Christians included. And have I been a 'good loser' ? Many times , no.
So, although I had a wonderful Christian home, I don't recall much about how to live in this competitive world and deal with winning and losing in a Christian way that would glorify God. This, I believe, requires a way of viewing competition quite opposite of the world. A major area of non-conforming. Something to be taught from an early age.
I don't mean to wander off the topic too far on this thread and if it is too far, we can move it to another new thread.
I'm wondering what others think on this and how they go about both winning and losing in some kind of competition with others that glorifies God. Even here on this forum I think we are into 'war games' at times, myself included, and know some of my input is not to glorify God in it. Thoughts ?
I think you should earnestly tell yourself that "winning or losing doesn't matter.. at all". The game may entail and winner or loser, but the focus should be on keeping peace, building fellowship, and enjoying one another.
Other variables to consider is the level of seriousness of competition.
-Is it winner take all?
-Is it about pride in identity (cultural, national)?
-Is it to build fellowship or to gain status?
Competitiveness isn't limited to formalized games. It can be a personality that's always wanting to be "on top of the heap."
As for Christians, the hope to build fellowship might be misinterpreted. We can let it roll off our backs and continue to be willing to be kind.
KingdomBuilder wrote:I think you should earnestly tell yourself that "winning or losing doesn't matter.. at all". The game may entail and winner or loser, but the focus should be on keeping peace, building fellowship, and enjoying one another.
For myself, being raised in a very competitive environment (sports, career, etc) after 70 years I still feel pain in losing and find pleasure in winning. Although I work on not being affected by winning or losing and I believe I have made progress in some areas, in other areas I don't do well. One challenge for me is to do my best and accepting the outcome. I'm pretty sure at the root of it all is a wrong view of myself and the source of my achievements. The old battle with the ego/flesh. And that is my side of the issue keeping the right attitude about winning and losing.
But it isn't me alone that I think I have responsibility for. I don't enjoy watching someone else lose as I know what I feel when I lose. To pursue a competition that can result in another experiencing loss seems like not treating others as I would like to be treated. So, I can't just consider my own win or lose feelings but should be sensitive to how a loss can negatively affect another. And that is what I'm curious about. If a Christian is involved in a competition that causes others to lose and feel 'like a loser' (disappointment, sadness, shame, worthless, a failure, etc) then what should a Christian do to 'soften the blow' on a fellow human ? And/or do we try to avoid areas of competition wherever possible ?
MaxPC wrote:Other variables to consider is the level of seriousness of competition.
-Is it winner take all?
-Is it about pride in identity (cultural, national)?
-Is it to build fellowship or to gain status?
Competitiveness isn't limited to formalized games. It can be a personality that's always wanting to be "on top of the heap."
As for Christians, the hope to build fellowship might be misinterpreted. We can let it roll off our backs and continue to be willing to be kind.
Agree, there are all kinds of games we can play to gain the 'upper hand' over another. Some may bombard another with stats and various supporting sources to appear to be the winner or at least, be seen as 'in the lead'. Some may use logic to 'out debate' another using their intellectual gifts. There is likely considerable competitions going on in these forums to come out winners. When differing ideas get 'personal', then it seems the ego is at play. And it is hard at time to convey some thoughts without something posted being taken as a hurt.
I've always thought that 'turning the other cheek' is much more that some violent, literal slapping of the face. Words are most often the slap in our environment and non-resistance in both word and deed is what I need to strive for. And it goes even further as Jesus said, we don't just passively take the hit and wait for another but we respond with doing good to those who abuse us. Without the empowering of the Holy Spirit, the grace of God, I know I can't pull this off. So, it gets back to who is in control - God or myself.
MaxPC wrote:Other variables to consider is the level of seriousness of competition.
-Is it winner take all?
-Is it about pride in identity (cultural, national)?
-Is it to build fellowship or to gain status?
Competitiveness isn't limited to formalized games. It can be a personality that's always wanting to be "on top of the heap."
As for Christians, the hope to build fellowship might be misinterpreted. We can let it roll off our backs and continue to be willing to be kind.
Agree, there are all kinds of games we can play to gain the 'upper hand' over another. Some may bombard another with stats and various supporting sources to appear to be the winner or at least, be seen as 'in the lead'. Some may use logic to 'out debate' another using their intellectual gifts. There is likely considerable competitions going on in these forums to come out winners. When differing ideas get 'personal', then it seems the ego is at play. And it is hard at time to convey some thoughts without something posted being taken as a hurt.
I've always thought that 'turning the other cheek' is much more that some violent, literal slapping of the face. Words are most often the slap in our environment and non-resistance in both word and deed is what I need to strive for. And it goes even further as Jesus said, we don't just passively take the hit and wait for another but we respond with doing good to those who abuse us. Without the empowering of the Holy Spirit, the grace of God, I know I can't pull this off. So, it gets back to who is in control - God or myself.
More thoughts ?
Amen and amen.
For those who are addicted to argument and have ruined their relationships in their lives with that behavior, our active response should be to not enable that behavior by engaging the argument. I believe we should instead actively and firmly move the conversation onto more encouraging and edifying Christian discussion to help the person develop better interpersonal skills for discipleship.
One of the problems that has emerged from too much internet usage is this addiction to arguments. One group of sociologists and psychiatrists has even identified this behavior as a form of induced autism. It certainly makes the decision of the Appalachian Mountain Church understandable.
I personally believe that competitiveness has no place in the Kingdom of God, including the local church or broader church. Having said that, I grew up playing lots of competitive games and I don't feel like it damaged my "vision" on this particular topic. Just because I played some board game to win doesn't mean I allowed that desire to be brought into the spiritual realm and corrupt the way I interact with my brethren. Whether or not this works for all Christians, I don't know.
I was raised in an environment where we were often reminded to enjoy our games but not to get too competitive in them. As youth, we complained about "social volleyball" because it went awful, but at the same time our ministers spoke out against being competitive. Volleyball was to be fun for everyone, not just a handful of good players that won in the end.
CADude wrote:I personally believe that competitiveness has no place in the Kingdom of God, including the local church or broader church. Having said that, I grew up playing lots of competitive games and I don't feel like it damaged my "vision" on this particular topic. Just because I played some board game to win doesn't mean I allowed that desire to be brought into the spiritual realm and corrupt the way I interact with my brethren. Whether or not this works for all Christians, I don't know.
Sounds like this has not been a problem for you. Myself, I have participated in church hockey, church basketball and church softball leagues. Some of the worst sportsmanship occurred in these leagues. What would likely be called the liberal Mennonites, in those days, were some of the best in basketball and softball and usually were not competitive to the point of getting into fist fights but it happened. I still play with Mennonites in golf that are very competitive and winning is important. So, in my experience, interacting with other Christians in these church leagues ended up in some unholy rivalries. Currently our church is part of a lobball league with other Mennonite churches and I'm not aware of how this goes as far as sportsmanship.
I was raised in an environment where we were often reminded to enjoy our games but not to get too competitive in them. As youth, we complained about "social volleyball" because it went awful, but at the same time our ministers spoke out against being competitive. Volleyball was to be fun for everyone, not just a handful of good players that won in the end.
In my research on this topic I ran across this on competition and for me, it said, as Trump would say, 'a lot'.
, no.