"Give to whomever asks you": voluntary speeding fines

[Josh]

A discussion came up after church a few weeks ago. In our area, there is a city which is notorious for running speed cameras where, due to that city's lack of desire to comply with state law, they cannot send actual speeding citations based on that speed camera. So they instead send letters asking for a voluntary donation.

Anyone who has worked in that city (or, more specifically, has employees who drive company vehicles in that city) eventually gets one of these.

Since it is voluntary, there is no "due process" or appeal process to claim the owner wasn't driving - since there is no obligation to pay it anyway and no consequences for not doing so. Likewise, there is no due process to claim the camera isn't adjusted properly; I used to drive by one every day that was calibrated about 10 MPH off in a 25 MPH zone, so I would repeatedly get letters in the mail. I just ignored them.

However, a visiting preacher gave a sermon a while ago that one of our deacons heard preached that as Anabaptist (or non-resistant) Christians, we should not exceed to do the bare minimum required. The deacon gave thought to that, and decided to pay one of these "violation" notices. Whilst it was one of his employees driving, he considered perhaps he was going 1 or 2 MPH over, and it does seem that as Christians we shouldn't fight everything tooth and nail but rather try to be good citizens and show a different kind of godly spirit.

I found this an interesting perspective, particularly when contrasted against a common ideal I see in America of always fighting the government tooth and nail on every last thing. (We can see the unfortunate fruit of this in cop videos - where people argue with cops at traffic stops, try to fight them, or just drive off and then necessitate a high speed chase.)

Thoughts?

[RZehr]

I think it’s a good idea to pay these. Especially if the amount they are asking for isn’t egregiously out of sync with the crime. For example, if they asked for ten thousand dollars, and you don’t have it, it is in no way whatsoever bad to just ignore the request.

[Josh]

I think it’s a good idea to pay these. Especially if the amount they are asking for isn’t egregiously out of sync with the crime. For example, if they asked for ten thousand dollars, and you don’t have it, it is in no way whatsoever bad to just ignore the request.

It piqued my interest, particularly the one that sent me a letter every single day (or twice a day). I'm not sure I feel I should pay one when it is obviously malfunctioning like that. It creates an interesting quandary since there is no established appeal process - one simply has to adjudicate for himself if it should be paid or not, and it is literally between you and God.

(An open question is why they didn't just park a police officer at that place if there were really that much speeding going on, but one of the dynamics at play here is that Ohio doesn't let cities pocket the money from speeding tickets - it goes into the general fund, and sometimes is additionally earmarked for state programs to improve road safety or help victims of car crashes.)

[Soloist]

I think it’s a good idea to pay these. Especially if the amount they are asking for isn’t egregiously out of sync with the crime. For example, if they asked for ten thousand dollars, and you don’t have it, it is in no way whatsoever bad to just ignore the request.

It piqued my interest, particularly the one that sent me a letter every single day (or twice a day). I'm not sure I feel I should pay one when it is obviously malfunctioning like that. It creates an interesting quandary since there is no established appeal process - one simply has to adjudicate for himself if it should be paid or not, and it is literally between you and God.

(An open question is why they didn't just park a police officer at that place if there were really that much speeding going on, but one of the dynamics at play here is that Ohio doesn't let cities pocket the money from speeding tickets - it goes into the general fund, and sometimes is additionally earmarked for state programs to improve road safety or help victims of car crashes.)

Wife: Could you just email them to say that one is broken? you could even volunteer to pay for it to get fixed if you’re super motivated. surely they have some sort of contact number or email or something.

[RZehr]

I think it’s a good idea to pay these. Especially if the amount they are asking for isn’t egregiously out of sync with the crime. For example, if they asked for ten thousand dollars, and you don’t have it, it is in no way whatsoever bad to just ignore the request.

It piqued my interest, particularly the one that sent me a letter every single day (or twice a day). I'm not sure I feel I should pay one when it is obviously malfunctioning like that. It creates an interesting quandary since there is no established appeal process - one simply has to adjudicate for himself if it should be paid or not, and it is literally between you and God.

(An open question is why they didn't just park a police officer at that place if there were really that much speeding going on, but one of the dynamics at play here is that Ohio doesn't let cities pocket the money from speeding tickets - it goes into the general fund, and sometimes is additionally earmarked for state programs to improve road safety or help victims of car crashes.)

If I got a request from a place that I’ve never been, that would feel different. As would one that was malfunctioning. Than if it was one letter from a city that I frequent and probably did break the law.

[Soloist]

Wife: it seems like something somebody should at least mention to the local police, because even if it doesn’t have legal ramifications, somebody’s boss might not be too happy, and it might not even be the employees fault.

[Josh]

Wife: Could you just email them to say that one is broken? you could even volunteer to pay for it to get fixed if you’re super motivated.

Email the city of Cleveland to tell them their speed camera that gives fake citations is broken?

surely they have some sort of contact number or email or something.

The interesting thing is that, for this, they don't. Since there is no law saying you have to pay it, there is no due process to contact them to even complain. All you can do is mail a letter in narcing out someone else as being the driver.

[RZehr]

Collect the letters, mail them back with an explanation? I would be annoyed enough by the daily junk mail.

[ohio jones]

Collect the letters, mail them back with an explanation? I would be annoyed enough by the daily junk mail.

I'd be inclined to find out which city employee administers the contract with the camera people, and go to their office in person to pay the fines.

[steve-in-kville]

In my opinion, knowing a little how law enforcement works, the police would be further ahead having a squad car sit at trouble spots. Not all day, but during rush hours. Our local state police do that and it instills the seriousness of the situation.

One advancement is police technology is the use of plate readers mounted in the cop cars. These work well in alerting an officer if a vehicle is not registered, not insured or if the driver is wanted for something. Some may view it as a violation of privacy, I get that, but it can be an asset to the public as well.