Do Plain Catholics exist?

[temporal1]

Most recently:

.. I was invited here to provide answers to misinformation. ..

… who invited you here to correct misinformation?

2021 / Not Mrs.Nisly:
i’m not sure, i think, “a gentleman” is the phrase used a few times, i think from early on.

I was invited to the forum by a gentleman to be a source of information on Catholic practices in general and simple sharing by way of dialogue instead of the forum members having to depend on third-hand information from blogs with an agenda.

-I enjoy the company of a number of people who share my perspective regarding issues such as "no politics"; non-resistance; and belief in the fundamentals of the New Testament.

-Plain Catholics do not see themselves as Anabaptists. We are one of the many cultures in the Catholic Church. We pursue a simple life based upon farming; Biblical modesty and Biblical marriage; and the Deposit of the Faith as interpreted by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church.

-We are a tiny group within a 2 Billion strong church membership. We live in the "boonies" as a friend calls it. We are the Quieter of the Quiet of the land (although I am not that quiet as my friends will tell you-I like a good conversation, good coffee and a good laugh ). We do not introduce ourselves as Plain Catholics any more than others introduce themselves as Polish Catholics or Italian Catholics or ... Irish/Indian/Polynesian/Whatever other blend of Catholics. We are just another culture in a very large church of a multitude of cultures.

-While we share the common ground of core tenets of faith with other Christian denominations (Jesus as Savior; the Trinity; Biblical beliefs), we recognize that in other details there are differences of perspective and beliefs. We will listen, we will share what we believe in exchange; nevertheless we refuse to argue others out of their personal beliefs. It is their Free Will journey to and with God, a dignity we respect.

In my personal perspective (not necessarily shared by other Catholics), the Catholic Church needed the Reformation & Radical Reformations to take a long and serious look at herself. Every few hundred years there needs to be a thorough inventory and house cleaning in any denomination, a revival if you will: because human nature being what it is, practices and attitudes accumulate that are not necessarily a part of healthy New Testament living.

These are the points simply put and summed. I am tired lately plus it is Lent so I am limiting my internet time. PM any questions you may have and I will try to get to them as I can. God bless you all.

see, this is an odd thing about our private chats. he had a gentleman friend who invited him, wouldn’t it be normal for him to chat with his friend as he got started on forum?

as i said, at the time, i felt it was harmless, i won’t say it was harmful. but, in retrospect, there are questions.
i’m not internet-savvy, MD was the first forum (and mostly only forum i participate in) .. a few members helped me now+then to recognize potential problems and avoid them. good advice! i have a few regrets. overall, no serious complaints. the complaints i have were my own fault/naivete/ridiculousness.

i was warned, the forum is overall good, but occasional problems arise. i’ve found that to be accurate.
MN has fewer problems than MD. Robert is present a lot, i think this helps members+mods. on MD there were times when mods didn’t seem to be quite sure how to handle things, admin could be hard to locate.

^^my understanding. please correct where needed. time has passed, my memory isn’t great.

[Valerie]

Well we have visited around 12 EO Churches, some more than once, 1 for about a solid year & still visit occasionally. Pants are rare & some women completely cover their heads-

When we visited a Russian EO Church, they had a kind sign by entrance doie asking women to cover their heads & abstain from wearing pants.
Generally speaking EO attendees dress much more respectful than churches I had been in for decades.

Of course in Biblical times men didn't wear pants either.

He was not emptying these changes happen no Ed just recently, gradually, like MCUSA

I’ve got a Russian Orthodox friend who converted. He and his family dress plain. I think his family was the only plain dressed one. He never called himself plain though. They converted.
They also drive a considerable distance for an old rites church which hasn’t adopted the newer practices.
I’ve poked around and looked into the local orthodox churches here and in Oregon. None of them (about 6) were particularly modest dressing. The Greek Orthodox was the closest with very flashy clothing and coverings. The Ethiopian, Russian and one other type I can’t remember all looked fairly modern and worldly. I haven’t managed to actually attend a service.
The Catholic service I was planning to attend was super liberal and I got turned off by all the statues in the main entrance being “revered”

That family would fit into most conservative end charity groups and they definitely could claim “plain” but it would be for converting their prior church mates.
Personal experience there.

You shared why our friends won't attend Orthodox Churches. To the Orthodox, like where I came from in the Jesus Movement, we didn't attract clothing to sin. It just didn't occur to us because of Scriptures like man focus on the outward, but God looks at the heart. So we were of the mindset being young that all these seemingly dead churches were just about rules and needed a revival of faith, joy and sharing the Gospel.

The Orthodox tend to have T traditions (strict) and t traditions.

So right on this forum we personally know 3 plain families- either RCC or Orthodox. Whether they claim the sacred title of "plain" matters not. I would never have made an issue of it. As an observer, it was disappointing to say the least and part of what made me go - nooe- there's not the Agape live I hoped to see in a group that has a reputation for peace and love.

At any rate, our friends cannot leave the Orthodox Faith, remember their heritage is Mennonite they can't go back because they agree with their conclusions or interpretations. Just accepting the falling away has begun will keep them true to their faith-

[Valerie]

Well we have visited around 12 EO Churches, some more than once, 1 for about a solid year & still visit occasionally. Pants are rare & some women completely cover their heads-

When we visited a Russian EO Church, they had a kind sign by entrance doie asking women to cover their heads & abstain from wearing pants.
Generally speaking EO attendees dress much more respectful than churches I had been in for decades.

Of course in Biblical times men didn't wear pants either.

He was not emptying these changes happen no Ed just recently, gradually, like MCUSA

My interaction with EOs has mostly been outside of church services. I can say definitively that their women wear pants.

Conversely, I have never encountered any EO person who comes even close to “dressing Amish”, i.e., suspenders, broadfalls, kapps, cape dresses, aprons.

Yes they don't see pants as sin. I think these days only Anabaptists do and one Church of God Church in our town we visited.

Josh you know as well as I do how many varieties of Amish there are. So our friends dress is more conservative than many girls I see running around Holmes in tight solid short sleeve dresses that you can see their underwear lines. His daughters cannot wear short sleeves. I've gone thrifting with them and they head straight to the Plain Rack (titled that) and the short sleeve Amish dresses they will not buy.

When we were first seekers I loved the way a former Amish, Charity man answered me when I asked about pants. He said "I'd rather walk with a woman in loose pants than with a woman in a tight dress" (probably referring to some Amish). Answer with grace.

[Valerie]

I see the mob mentality against him.

i trust admin+mods with this on forum. ditching simple questions, changing the subject, causes unease, invites questions.
i don’t think anyone here is a fan of mob mentality, Robert has spoken against it many times (esp wrt politics).

i realize you’ve been questioned, been pressured about EO now+then. i’m not aware anyone questions your (motives)?
you haven’t posted things about EO that “didn’t add up.” like Josh notes above, pics of German Baptists, etc.

I have seen mods address some & not others where I felt perhaps there was a little bias, being a mod is not easy.
I was not EO I was introduced to them via the person who invited me here, I was learning both. Praying for direction.

OJ did compliment Max on the way he is recently. Would rather see than then endless criticism as if everyone here can cast a stone being innocent. Sinless. Totally transparent.

Can people please let it go????

[Soloist]

You shared why our friends won't attend Orthodox Churches. To the Orthodox, like where I came from in the Jesus Movement, we didn't attract clothing to sin. It just didn't occur to us because of Scriptures like man focus on the outward, but God looks at the heart. So we were of the mindset being young that all these seemingly dead churches were just about rules and needed a revival of faith, joy and sharing the Gospel.

I wasn’t equating no plain dress to sin. I do however, believe that immodesty is sin. God looks at the heart, but immodesty comes from the heart. These seeming dead churches are being evaluated by the same outward means. You judge them as dead because they have standards and perhaps have less public witnessing or results. God doesn’t promise that obedience will result in visible results.
If I judge the Orthodox as corrupt or Catholics the same, you have defended them, perhaps you are guilty of the same things you accuse us of.

The Orthodox tend to have T traditions (strict) and t traditions.

How is this any different then Mennonites?

So right on this forum we personally know 3 plain families- either RCC or Orthodox. Whether they claim the sacred title of "plain" matters not. I would never have made an issue of it. As an observer, it was disappointing to say the least and part of what made me go - nooe- there's not the Agape live I hoped to see in a group that has a reputation for peace and love.

If Max said he was a plain Catholic, no one cares. It’s the claiming of a sociological group that has no evidence for it’s existence yet he claims they communicate and have common law they agree on, a form of standards.

At any rate, our friends cannot leave the Orthodox Faith, remember their heritage is Mennonite they can't go back because they agree with their conclusions or interpretations. Just accepting the falling away has begun will keep them true to their faith-

That can be said of those who leave the Orthodox, Catholic, Protestants, Mennonites, Amish… everyone believes the choices they make are right until they don’t.

Can people please let it go???

Sure, stop defending falsehood, and those expressing it stop bringing it up. Then there will be nothing to disagree on. I don’t know if you noticed, but we on Mennonet tend to only discuss things we disagree on. There is very little energy put into agreements.

[Bootstrap]

People need to quit treating other Christians outside of their own denominations like enemies.

I don't do that, and in fact maintain cordial relations with other Catholics - indeed, a Catholic person and myself will be organising an ecumenical summit (as much as one is possible) between Mennonites and Catholics in a few months.

I don't consider MaxPC an enemy, either. I don't consider "Plain Catholics" an enemy, either. I just sincerely doubt that they exist, outside of MaxPC's claims about himself.

Same here. I regularly serve with Christians from many denominations in a couple of settings, and consider them friends and partners in ministry.

I don't even know why it was SO important to grill Max about being PC. It never made sense to me.

Max showed up on MennoDiscuss making a lot of claims about himself and Plain Catholics that turned out to be false. At one point, I simply ran a script to download the images from what was then on his website and use Google image search to identify the original sources on other web pages. When I pointed to the sites where the pictures came from, he doubled down, told stories of his memories of the families who lived in these places (buildings in state parks and open air museums) or the Plain Catholics he knew (pictures of German Baptists and others).

That was a long time ago, it would be good to let it go now. On both sides. That includes letting go of the bitterness some have at those who pointed out the falsehood.

I don't think that was religious persecution. We really do need to be able to identify falsehood in online forums. I don't think anyone doubts that there are Catholics who dress conservatively, but usually not like Amish. There do seem to be a few who dress like Amish or German Baptists or whatever, including one family in New Zealand. But most Catholics don't seem to know that these people exist, even in places where we have been told they worship.

[ken_sylvania]

Our dear Orthodox friend tried to teach here and received the same ill treatment so it is not unique to Max.

I wonder why it wasn't well accepted for your Orthodox friend to try to teach EO teachings on a Mennonite forum...

[Judas Maccabeus]

Our dear Orthodox friend tried to teach here and received the same ill treatment so it is not unique to Max.

I wonder why it wasn't well accepted for your Orthodox friend to try to teach EO teachings on a Mennonite forum...

Teach=Proselytize.

Enough said.

[Valerie]

Our dear Orthodox friend tried to teach here and received the same ill treatment so it is not unique to Max.

I wonder why it wasn't well accepted for your Orthodox friend to try to teach EO teachings on a Mennonite forum...

Teach=Proselytize.

Enough said.

Because like other Protestants, you assume wrongly by misunderstanding or blaming Constantine for this & that when things were from those taught by Apostles. A wise person will try to understand things they clearly don't.
Best to stick with milk.

[Valerie]

People need to quit treating other Christians outside of their own denominations like enemies.

I don't do that, and in fact maintain cordial relations with other Catholics - indeed, a Catholic person and myself will be organising an ecumenical summit (as much as one is possible) between Mennonites and Catholics in a few months.

I don't consider MaxPC an enemy, either. I don't consider "Plain Catholics" an enemy, either. I just sincerely doubt that they exist, outside of MaxPC's claims about himself.

Same here. I regularly serve with Christians from many denominations in a couple of settings, and consider them friends and partners in ministry.

I don't even know why it was SO important to grill Max about being PC. It never made sense to me.

Max showed up on MennoDiscuss making a lot of claims about himself and Plain Catholics that turned out to be false. At one point, I simply ran a script to download the images from what was then on his website and use Google image search to identify the original sources on other web pages. When I pointed to the sites where the pictures came from, he doubled down, told stories of his memories of the families who lived in these places (buildings in state parks and open air museums) or the Plain Catholics he knew (pictures of German Baptists and others).

That was a long time ago, it would be good to let it go now. On both sides. That includes letting go of the bitterness some have at those who pointed out the falsehood.

I don't think that was religious persecution. We really do need to be able to identify falsehood in online forums. I don't think anyone doubts that there are Catholics who dress conservatively, but usually not like Amish. There do seem to be a few who dress like Amish or German Baptists or whatever, including one family in New Zealand. But most Catholics don't seem to know that these people exist, even in places where we have been told they worship.

Am not "bitter" just like was pointed out last night: which "round" are we on. I don't see this kind of behavior from Ernie. Think about it.