Trans student killed in school

[Szdfan]

All students should feel safe in school, regardless of how they dress or identify themselves.

[Ken]

Our school would have long ago asked why the school administrators are creating an environment where cross dressing is acceptable. That is the correct place to question the administration. And then you can talk about bullying too.

Is it possible that policies, teachers and administrators demonstrated that it was "acceptable" to cross dress? Very concerning. Is there no dress code at these schools? I think boys should wear button down shirts and long pants, and girls should wear long dresses.

It’s impossible to address cross dressing in a school that already is indoctrinated by local culture.
There are very few schools outside of very religious ones that would require girls to wear dresses exclusively.

Most schools don’t bat an eye at girls wearing pants, less permit boys to wear dresses.
Even in our own society we kind of ignore cross dressing from women because of cultural expectations surrounding us, we would have a serious problem with a male regularly attending our church in a dress, we would expect a woman to eventually start wearing dresses if they stayed.

Nonsense

Women and girls wearing pants is not "cross dressing". Those are women's clothes, designed for women and sold at women's clothing stores. And if you are citing some Old Testament dictates about dress then you are being hypocritical because when those verses were written neither men nor women wore anything resembling the clothing of today. Not pants, shirts, and jackets. Nor skirts and blouses or dresses. Maybe you should go back to tunics, robes, and sandals if you want to dress Biblically. Since pants are now as much women's dress as men's.

In any event, the few trans kids I have ever seen in class aren't actually dressing in any way unusual. Boys aren't wearing dresses. They tend to dress pretty much the same as their peers. Jeans, t-shirts, hoodies, etc. Maybe with a little more flair with earrings, fingernail polish, and sometimes makeup. And sometimes not. Perhaps hairstyles that are a bit different. But that is about it. And non-trans kids do the same thing. HS dress is pretty unisex in style and has been for decades. Girls may dress up for fancy events, but not to attend school.

You folks have this odd notion that trans kids are running around like drag queens. That is rarely the case.

Unless you want to actually mandate school uniforms, kids are going to wear what they want, within school dress codes. Which these days are usually unsex and mostly about keeping straight kids from showing too much skin.

[Neto]

On February 26, students at Owasso High School walked out after Nex's suicide in protest about the pervasive bullying at the school --
https://abcnews.go.com/US/student-walko ... =107546201

At Owasso High School in Oklahoma, where nonbinary student Nex Benedict got in a fight with several other students the day before they died, students walked out Monday in protest of bullying and in support of the school's 2SLGBTQ community.

"Our children are scared to death and go to school every day, and something has to stop," one Owasso parent, Susie Eubank, told Tulsa ABC affiliate KTUL. "My child has had direct threats. Direct derogatory names."

Anti-LGBTQ bullying and violence have been the center of conversation in the aftermath of Nex's death earlier this month, as the Benedict family and the local 2SLGBTQ community continue to mourn with vigils and memorials across the state and country.

The family said Nex Benedict's bullying had begun after Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt, citing safety concerns, signed a bill into law in May 2022 that barred transgender and gender-expansive youth from using bathrooms consistent with their gender identity.

Part of the argument and concern I'm hearing is that Oklahoma's policies about non-binary and transgender students helped exasperate bullying of these students by stigmatizing them. Is it possible that policies, teachers and administrators demonstrated that it was "acceptable" to bully Nex?

Since I attended Owasso HS myself, I'll just say that HS students will do a walk out over just about anything. AT least they did when I was in school there, and back then, there were actually consequences ('licks' - butt spankings with "the board of education" - the male teachers spanked the boys, and the female teachers spanked the girls). A walk out by students does not necessarily reflect any personal belief of the participants - it's just a"fun thing to do". (I didn't do any of the walk outs back then, by the way.)

Trans?!
Again, the young woman was not 'trans'. I don't know how she dressed on a normal school day, but the pictures I saw didn't look unusual for an average HS student.

[Side note: The news reporter got the name 'Eubank' wrong - it is Eubanks. (I went to school there with a Kathy Eubanks, probably a relative of the person quoted's husband.)]

[Soloist]

Nonsense

Women and girls wearing pants is not "cross dressing". Those are women's clothes, designed for women and sold at women's clothing stores. And if you are citing some Old Testament dictates about dress then you are being hypocritical because when those verses were written neither men nor women wore anything resembling the clothing of today. Not pants, shirts, and jackets. Nor skirts and blouses or dresses. Maybe you should go back to tunics, robes, and sandals if you want to dress Biblically. Since pants are now as much women's dress as men's.

In any event, the few trans kids I have ever seen in class aren't actually dressing in any way unusual. Boys aren't wearing dresses. They tend to dress pretty much the same as their peers. Jeans, t-shirts, hoodies, etc. Maybe with a little more flair with earrings, fingernail polish, and sometimes makeup. Perhaps hairstyles that are a bit different. But that is about it. And non-trans kids do the same thing. HS dress is pretty unisex in style and has been for decades. Girls may dress up for fancy events, but not to attend school.

Unless you want to actually mandate school uniforms, kids are going to wear what they want, within school dress codes. Which these days are usually unsex and mostly about keeping straight kids from showing too much skin.

You are missing my point entirely. We as a conservative Mennonite culture do not have women wearing pants and I was pointing out a culture that indirectly marginalizes men and accepts women doing the same thing.

[steve-in-kville]

Most schools don’t bat an eye at girls wearing pants, less permit boys to wear dresses.
Even in our own society we kind of ignore cross dressing from women because of cultural expectations surrounding us, we would have a serious problem with a male regularly attending our church in a dress, we would expect a woman to eventually start wearing dresses if they stayed.

True story: When I was in high school, around Halloween, one class I was in had a costume contest. One guy dressed up like an Amish girl. Authentic in every way... headcovering, dress, dark hosiery, stuffed a bra, everything.

He won the contest in case you want to know.

[Ken]

Nonsense

Women and girls wearing pants is not "cross dressing". Those are women's clothes, designed for women and sold at women's clothing stores. And if you are citing some Old Testament dictates about dress then you are being hypocritical because when those verses were written neither men nor women wore anything resembling the clothing of today. Not pants, shirts, and jackets. Nor skirts and blouses or dresses. Maybe you should go back to tunics, robes, and sandals if you want to dress Biblically. Since pants are now as much women's dress as men's.

In any event, the few trans kids I have ever seen in class aren't actually dressing in any way unusual. Boys aren't wearing dresses. They tend to dress pretty much the same as their peers. Jeans, t-shirts, hoodies, etc. Maybe with a little more flair with earrings, fingernail polish, and sometimes makeup. Perhaps hairstyles that are a bit different. But that is about it. And non-trans kids do the same thing. HS dress is pretty unisex in style and has been for decades. Girls may dress up for fancy events, but not to attend school.

Unless you want to actually mandate school uniforms, kids are going to wear what they want, within school dress codes. Which these days are usually unsex and mostly about keeping straight kids from showing too much skin.

You are missing my point entirely. We as a conservative Mennonite culture do not have women wearing pants and I was pointing out a culture that indirectly marginalizes men and accepts women doing the same thing.

No, you are missing my point. Pants aren't Biblical and neither are dresses or skirts. You are free to dress however you want, but it is inaccurate to claim it is in any way Biblical.

And modern culture does not marginalize men. I don't know where people get that notion. Not in schools, not in sports or entertainment, not in politics or business. Not really anywhere.

[Soloist]

Most schools don’t bat an eye at girls wearing pants, less permit boys to wear dresses.
Even in our own society we kind of ignore cross dressing from women because of cultural expectations surrounding us, we would have a serious problem with a male regularly attending our church in a dress, we would expect a woman to eventually start wearing dresses if they stayed.

True story: When I was in high school, around Halloween, one class I was in had a costume contest. One guy dressed up like an Amish girl. Authentic in every way... headcovering, dress, dark hosiery, stuffed a bra, everything.

He won the contest in case you want to know.

A public school or religious?

[Neto]

Bullying can actually kill or cause serious injury, such as happened to a 15 year old girl. She’ll is a white person in a school district that is overwhelmingly black:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... adult.html

She had her head slammed into the concrete repeatedly and is in the hospital right now with serious brain trauma.

I would consider that serious “bullying”, yet there doesn’t seem to be much pressure to do anything about it. In fact, this school district gave itself an award for being “diverse” and scoring well on DE&I, and also fired its on site police officer because the police department didn’t want to take yet more DE&I training.

I don’t think violence like that should happen in a school. (If there was violence against that student who later killed herself, I think that is very bad, although it doesn’t appear she died from bullying injuries.)

I had my head banged repeatedly against a brick wall while I was in Jr High. I was already kinda' senseless when the basketball coach saw it, and stopped the other boy. (Maybe that's why I'm a bit of a nut case myself.)

That time, I don't think the "bullying" had anything to do with being white (he was Indian), or because I was Mennonite, and perceived as being 'German' - in a time when anti-German sentiment was (still?) very strong - I WAS sometimes called 'Adolph'', or 'Hitler'. (Okies are generally very friendly, but they also hold onto old prejudices, and values - for a long time.) The reason was clear to me - I had inadvertently 'shamed' him in a basketball game in gym class - he went out of bounds as I ran along side him going up the court. He was on the JR High Varsity team, so it was a big deal to him. He was "teaching me not to do that again".

[Josh]

All students should feel safe in school, regardless of how they dress or identify themselves.

Yes, nobody should get beat up or murdered. But that has zip all to do with identities or clothes.

Schools should, however, have dress codes. And expect students and staff to follow them.

[steve-in-kville]

Most schools don’t bat an eye at girls wearing pants, less permit boys to wear dresses.
Even in our own society we kind of ignore cross dressing from women because of cultural expectations surrounding us, we would have a serious problem with a male regularly attending our church in a dress, we would expect a woman to eventually start wearing dresses if they stayed.

True story: When I was in high school, around Halloween, one class I was in had a costume contest. One guy dressed up like an Amish girl. Authentic in every way... headcovering, dress, dark hosiery, stuffed a bra, everything.

He won the contest in case you want to know.

A public school or religious?

Just a normal public school.