Ken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:08 pm So as of today, Trump has been found to have illegally engaged in insurrection against the US and no court have overruled that finding.
So he was found to have illegally engaged in insurrection but not found to have committed a crime?
No.
He was found to have engaged in insurrection, which makes him ineligible to hold the office of the President.
The criminality of engaging in insurrection is a different issue and the subject of the criminal courts, not elections officials.
Being age 30 is not illegal, nor is it illegal to have been born outside of the US. But those things disqualify you from the presidency even if they are not illegal. The State Court ruled similarly with respect to whether or not Trump engaged in insurrection.
I could hold my own court. The Court of Josh, and then find that Ken committed insurrection.
However, the court of Josh has no jurisdiction over much of anything (it does have a significant forensic role over my 2 year old, though). So if I made such a finding it would be meaningless.
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:08 pm
Fifth, it is actually the JOB of the courts to interpret the law when it is ambiguous as is the case with Trump's ballot access. In this case the Secretary of State of Colorado didn't just throw Trump off the ballot. What happened was some Republicans in CO challenged Trump's access to the ballot and it went to the State Supreme Court as is appropriate. The State Supreme Court found that Trump clearly failed test #5 above. That was what the Colorado Supreme Court found and clearly laid out in their decision. The Supreme Court left that part of their decision untouched. They didn't address it at all.
It is, actually, the JOB of the courts to interpret the law and slap the hands of people like the Maine Secretary of State who who take upon themselves authority that belongs to Congress and not to the states.
No, the court doesn't slap hands. And there is actually NOTHING in the Constitution that says determining whether or not one engaged in insurrection is the job of Congress. The Constitution is entirely silent on that. So the Maine Secretary of State read the Constitution and interpreted it correctly. Then the Supreme Court came along and said "It looks like this is an area where we need to add some clarity, and they did"
They didn't overrule the findings of the Maine Secretary of State. Just like in Colorado, they didn't even address them.
The found that the states have no more power or authority than I have to enforce Section 3 of the 14th Amendment against federal officials. In doing so they found that the Maine Secretary of State had no authority to remove Trump's name from the ballot. As she herself admits.
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:42 pm
He was found to have engaged in insurrection, which makes him ineligible to hold the office of the President.
The criminality of engaging in insurrection is a different issue and the subject of the criminal courts, not elections officials.
OK, so perhaps he engaged in non-criminal insurrection...
No, insurrection is illegal under Federal law. It simply isn't the jurisdiction of the State Court to criminally try Trump for the Federal crime of insurrection. It is, however, within their jurisdiction to administer State elections. And absent any ruling or clarity at the Federal level they did their job and ruled on his eligibility to be on the STATE ballot in Colorado. Now we actually have a ruling at the Federal level providing clarity on that issue so the issue of ballot access has been resolved. But not the issue of whether he engaged in insurrection. No one has overruled that determination by the Colorado Supreme Court.
Everyone involved in this process has done their jobs according to the law. No one has done anything improper or illegal except Trump himself.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:42 pm
He was found to have engaged in insurrection, which makes him ineligible to hold the office of the President.
The criminality of engaging in insurrection is a different issue and the subject of the criminal courts, not elections officials.
OK, so perhaps he engaged in non-criminal insurrection...
No, insurrection is illegal under Federal law. It simply isn't the jurisdiction of the State Court to criminally try Trump for the Federal crime of insurrection. It is, however, within their jurisdiction to administer State elections. And absent any ruling or clarity at the Federal level they did their job and ruled on his eligibility to be on the STATE ballot in Colorado. Now we actually have a ruling at the Federal level providing clarity on that issue so the issue of ballot access has been resolved. But not the issue of whether he engaged in insurrection. No one has overruled that determination by the Colorado Supreme Court.
Everyone involved in this process has done their jobs according to the law. No one has done anything improper or illegal except Trump himself.
What a wonderful fantasy world, where everybody except Public Enemy #1 is a law abiding saint.
Oh, did you mean just as it relates to the various ballot challenges? What did Trump do in those challenges that you find to be illegal?
Moses wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 9:57 pm
OK, so perhaps he engaged in non-criminal insurrection...
No, insurrection is illegal under Federal law. It simply isn't the jurisdiction of the State Court to criminally try Trump for the Federal crime of insurrection. It is, however, within their jurisdiction to administer State elections. And absent any ruling or clarity at the Federal level they did their job and ruled on his eligibility to be on the STATE ballot in Colorado. Now we actually have a ruling at the Federal level providing clarity on that issue so the issue of ballot access has been resolved. But not the issue of whether he engaged in insurrection. No one has overruled that determination by the Colorado Supreme Court.
Everyone involved in this process has done their jobs according to the law. No one has done anything improper or illegal except Trump himself.
What a wonderful fantasy world, where everybody except Public Enemy #1 is a law abiding saint.
Oh, did you mean just as it relates to the various ballot challenges? What did Trump do in those challenges that you find to be illegal?
Everyone involved in determining ballot access for the 2024 primary elections (including Trump) did, in fact, follow the law. What evidence do you have to the contrary?
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
No, insurrection is illegal under Federal law. It simply isn't the jurisdiction of the State Court to criminally try Trump for the Federal crime of insurrection. It is, however, within their jurisdiction to administer State elections. And absent any ruling or clarity at the Federal level they did their job and ruled on his eligibility to be on the STATE ballot in Colorado. Now we actually have a ruling at the Federal level providing clarity on that issue so the issue of ballot access has been resolved. But not the issue of whether he engaged in insurrection. No one has overruled that determination by the Colorado Supreme Court.
Everyone involved in this process has done their jobs according to the law. No one has done anything improper or illegal except Trump himself.
What a wonderful fantasy world, where everybody except Public Enemy #1 is a law abiding saint.
Oh, did you mean just as it relates to the various ballot challenges? What did Trump do in those challenges that you find to be illegal?
Everyone involved in determining ballot access for the 2024 primary elections (including Trump) did, in fact, follow the law. What evidence do you have to the contrary?
Just some random guy named Ken from Washington that claimed that, as far as this process goes, "No one has done anything improper or illegal except Trump himself." Which isn't really proof.
Moses wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:12 pm
What a wonderful fantasy world, where everybody except Public Enemy #1 is a law abiding saint.
Oh, did you mean just as it relates to the various ballot challenges? What did Trump do in those challenges that you find to be illegal?
Everyone involved in determining ballot access for the 2024 primary elections (including Trump) did, in fact, follow the law. What evidence do you have to the contrary?
Just some random guy named Ken from Washington that claimed that, as far as this process goes, "No one has done anything improper or illegal except Trump himself." Which isn't really proof.
This is an internet forum. We are all just giving our opinions exactly like you did when you started this thread.
Feel free to provide any evidence or argument you have that anyone involved in the ballot access process in CO or ME did something illegal or unethical. And we will take a look at it.
It is impossible to prove a negative. If you think someone did something illegal, make the argument.
0 x
A fool can throw out more questions than a wise man can answer. -RZehr
Ken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 10:57 pm
Feel free to provide any evidence or argument you have that anyone involved in the ballot access process in CO or ME did something illegal or unethical. And weKen will take a look at itdeny it.
