Gaza's Irrational Hatred

[Ken]

Paragraph one and paragraph three don't seem to concord. Additionally, Paragraph three seems to explain the rationale for what you detail in paragraph four.

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Not wanting a whole bunch of revolutionaries or terrorists in your midst is not the same thing as wanting a civilian population outside your borders to starve.

Look at our own southern border. A lot of Americans don't want to open the door to a flood of Central Americans into our country. But that doesn't mean Americans want to see Guatemala or Honduras blockaded and the population starve.

What I mean is this. Your claim that Israel won't let aid trucks through the Rafah Gate is dated. NPR has a story saying that aid does come through that gate.

I think the real reason Egypt doesn't want Palestinians is because of the facts you detailed in paragraph three of your response. Nothing more and nothing less. Which incidentally, might also be the reason Israel doesn't want them within their borders either.

From Yesterday's Washington Post (a gift link): How Israel's Restrictions on aid put Gaza on the brink of famine: https://wapo.st/3V4ysgi

As for allowing people to seek refuge. If Egypt allows refugees in, Egypt has zero control over when they will be allowed to return home, if ever. If Israel accepts refugees, Israel is in complete control of when they will be allowed to return home, and could send them back to Gaza whenever they want, including next month when their military operations are done.

And, in any event, Israel is responsible for the fact that there are refugees in the first place, not Egypt. They have the vastly higher obligation here.

[ken_sylvania]

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Not wanting a whole bunch of revolutionaries or terrorists in your midst is not the same thing as wanting a civilian population outside your borders to starve.

Look at our own southern border. A lot of Americans don't want to open the door to a flood of Central Americans into our country. But that doesn't mean Americans want to see Guatemala or Honduras blockaded and the population starve.

What I mean is this. Your claim that Israel won't let aid trucks through the Rafah Gate is dated. NPR has a story saying that aid does come through that gate.

I think the real reason Egypt doesn't want Palestinians is because of the facts you detailed in paragraph three of your response. Nothing more and nothing less. Which incidentally, might also be the reason Israel doesn't want them within their borders either.

From Yesterday's Washington Post (a gift link): How Israel's Restrictions on aid put Gaza on the brink of famine: https://wapo.st/3V4ysgi

As for allowing people to seek refuge. If Egypt allows refugees in, Egypt has zero control over when they will be allowed to return home, if ever. If Israel accepts refugees, Israel is in complete control of when they will be allowed to return home, and could send them back to Gaza whenever they want, including next month when their military operations are done.

And, in any event, Israel is responsible for the fact that there are refugees in the first place, not Egypt. They have the vastly higher obligation here.

Funny how you totally ignored responding to what HK suggests is the real reason why neither Egypt nor Israel wants Palestinian refugees.

[Ken]

What I mean is this. Your claim that Israel won't let aid trucks through the Rafah Gate is dated. NPR has a story saying that aid does come through that gate.

I think the real reason Egypt doesn't want Palestinians is because of the facts you detailed in paragraph three of your response. Nothing more and nothing less. Which incidentally, might also be the reason Israel doesn't want them within their borders either.

From Yesterday's Washington Post (a gift link): How Israel's Restrictions on aid put Gaza on the brink of famine: https://wapo.st/3V4ysgi

As for allowing people to seek refuge. If Egypt allows refugees in, Egypt has zero control over when they will be allowed to return home, if ever. If Israel accepts refugees, Israel is in complete control of when they will be allowed to return home, and could send them back to Gaza whenever they want, including next month when their military operations are done.

And, in any event, Israel is responsible for the fact that there are refugees in the first place, not Egypt. They have the vastly higher obligation here.

Funny how you totally ignored responding to what HK suggests is the real reason why neither Egypt nor Israel wants Palestinian refugees.

I'm not ignoring it. HK"s question was why EGYPT doesn't accept millions of Gaza refugees which I answered.

I also pointed out that the only reasons why there are refugees from Gaza in the first place are the actions of Israel, not Egypt. So the duty to house them really falls more on Israel not Egypt.

Why is HK or anyone else even asking about why Egypt won't take refugees when they don't FIRST ask the same question of Israel? Which is the country causing this mess in the first place.

[Robert]

I also pointed out that the only reasons why there are refugees from Gaza in the first place are the actions of Israel

Reactions

[Szdfan]

I suspect if Hamas laid down their arms, there would be peace. If Israel laid down their arms, there would be a massacre.

I also pointed out that the only reasons why there are refugees from Gaza in the first place are the actions of Israel

Reactions

I think that's too simple. The war in Gaza is the result of 80 years of conflict and escalation in which both Israel and the Palestinians are victims and perpetrators.

In February 2022, an Amnesty International report accused Israel of creating a system of apartheid and oppression against the Palestinians, especially in Gaza.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... -humanity/

Amnesty International documented acts proscribed in the Apartheid Convention and Rome Statute in all the areas Israel controls, although they occur more frequently and violently in the OPT than in Israel. Israeli authorities enact multiple measures to deliberately deny Palestinians their basic rights and freedoms, including draconian movement restrictions in the OPT, chronic discriminatory underinvestment in Palestinian communities in Israel, and the denial of refugees’ right to return. The report also documents forcible transfer, administrative detention, torture, and unlawful killings, in both Israel and the OPT.

Amnesty International found that these acts form part of a systematic and widespread attack directed against the Palestinian population, and are committed with the intent to maintain the system of oppression and domination. They therefore constitute the crime against humanity of apartheid.

The unlawful killing of Palestinian protesters is perhaps the clearest illustration of how Israeli authorities use proscribed acts to maintain the status quo. In 2018, Palestinians in Gaza began to hold weekly protests along the border with Israel, calling for the right of return for refugees and an end to the blockade. Before protests even began, senior Israeli officials warned that Palestinians approaching the wall would be shot. By the end of 2019, Israeli forces had killed 214 civilians, including 46 children.

This isn't peace either.

[HondurasKeiser]

I suspect if Hamas laid down their arms, there would be peace. If Israel laid down their arms, there would be a massacre.

I also pointed out that the only reasons why there are refugees from Gaza in the first place are the actions of Israel

Reactions

I think that's too simple. The war in Gaza is the result of 80 years of conflict and escalation in which both Israel and the Palestinians are victims and perpetrators.

In February 2022, an Amnesty International report accused Israel of creating a system of apartheid and oppression against the Palestinians, especially in Gaza.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/ ... -humanity/

Amnesty International documented acts proscribed in the Apartheid Convention and Rome Statute in all the areas Israel controls, although they occur more frequently and violently in the OPT than in Israel. Israeli authorities enact multiple measures to deliberately deny Palestinians their basic rights and freedoms, including draconian movement restrictions in the OPT, chronic discriminatory underinvestment in Palestinian communities in Israel, and the denial of refugees’ right to return. The report also documents forcible transfer, administrative detention, torture, and unlawful killings, in both Israel and the OPT.

Amnesty International found that these acts form part of a systematic and widespread attack directed against the Palestinian population, and are committed with the intent to maintain the system of oppression and domination. They therefore constitute the crime against humanity of apartheid.

The unlawful killing of Palestinian protesters is perhaps the clearest illustration of how Israeli authorities use proscribed acts to maintain the status quo. In 2018, Palestinians in Gaza began to hold weekly protests along the border with Israel, calling for the right of return for refugees and an end to the blockade. Before protests even began, senior Israeli officials warned that Palestinians approaching the wall would be shot. By the end of 2019, Israeli forces had killed 214 civilians, including 46 children.

This isn't peace either.

To be sure, and I think all of us here recognize the complexity of the situation and the deep suffering on both sides. Nevertheless, the war could end today if Hamas were to surrender and release the hostages.

[HondurasKeiser]

I'm not sure what you are talking about.

Not wanting a whole bunch of revolutionaries or terrorists in your midst is not the same thing as wanting a civilian population outside your borders to starve.

Look at our own southern border. A lot of Americans don't want to open the door to a flood of Central Americans into our country. But that doesn't mean Americans want to see Guatemala or Honduras blockaded and the population starve.

What I mean is this. Your claim that Israel won't let aid trucks through the Rafah Gate is dated. NPR has a story saying that aid does come through that gate.

I think the real reason Egypt doesn't want Palestinians is because of the facts you detailed in paragraph three of your response. Nothing more and nothing less. Which incidentally, might also be the reason Israel doesn't want them within their borders either.

From Yesterday's Washington Post (a gift link): How Israel's Restrictions on aid put Gaza on the brink of famine: https://wapo.st/3V4ysgi

As for allowing people to seek refuge. If Egypt allows refugees in, Egypt has zero control over when they will be allowed to return home, if ever. If Israel accepts refugees, Israel is in complete control of when they will be allowed to return home, and could send them back to Gaza whenever they want, including next month when their military operations are done.

And, in any event, Israel is responsible for the fact that there are refugees in the first place, not Egypt. They have the vastly higher obligation here.

In the WaPo piece, Israel says they're not restricting aid, Biden says "malarkey" and the discredited UNRWA folk blame Israel. Shocking! And that's the story?

A Guardian piece from a few months ago places much of the blame for aid not getting to Palestinians on Hamas:

They said most people were not receiving aid because they did not live in the shelters, which are overcrowded, and that this was encouraging looting. They also accused Hamas-run authorities of not fairly distributing aid.

“Qatari and Kuwaiti aid is received by the Ministry of Social Affairs and placed in its warehouses and is not distributed. If it is distributed, it is through organisations affiliated with Hamas. They distribute it to themselves and the rest of the people do not benefit from it,” they said.

[temporal1]

I suspect if Hamas laid down their arms, there would be peace. If Israel laid down their arms, there would be a massacre.

Still not sure why, in Ukraine, neither long history nor recent history matters one iota,
in Gaza, it’s all about the history.

Putin=Evil
Hamas=Justified

Even tho, Zelensky is known to be “no saint,” on any scale.
Altho, his finger-snapping for billions is extraordinary.

[temporal1]

From 4 mo ago

Ben Shapiro / How To Bomb Your Own Hospital And Blame The Jews / 55min

Description:
Palestinian Islamic Jihad accidentally hits a Gaza hospital with one of its rockets and promptly blames the Jews;
the media run with Hamas’ blood libel;
and the Arab street reacts to the false allegations with fury.

^^i think i posted this somewhere awhile back. couldn’t find it.

Ben S. is Jewish, with strong bias.
Evenso, i think worth a listen, to get another side. He describes many of the differences in tactics, Hamas versus Israel.

20+ years ago

Thomas Sowell / Watch Host's Face as Thomas Sowell Exposes the Real Origin of Jew Hatred / 3min

Description:
Dave Rubin of “The Rubin Report” shares a clip of Thomas Sowell explaining the roots of anti-Semitism and why middleman minority groups like the Jews around the world have always been persecuted over time.

TS attempts to speak with unemotional facts.
He has quite a lot to say about the Jewish experience, much more than this clip, i doubt TS has any Jewish bias.
His work is from long before Oct 7 2023.

For anyone interested in more than msm and their lot.

[temporal1]

^^Time stamps for Ben S’s video above:

00:00 - How To Bomb Your Own Hospital And Blame The Jews

9:28 - The Evidence

10:14 - IDF Spokesman: Islamic Jihad Fired Rockets That Fell Short

11:06 - Surveillance Footage

12:12 - Al Jazeera Shows Failed Rocket Live

12:50 - Radar Footage

13:18 - Drone Footage

14:14 - No Sign of Impact Crater

17:10 - IDF Releases Audio of Hamas Admitting They Fired Rocket

22:13 - NYT Stealth Editing Headlines

22:57 - Raf Sanchez: Maybe The Israelis Are Lying

26:07 - Kimberly Dozier: This Could Shift International Opinion Against Israel

27:47 - Tlaib, Omar Tweet Lies About Israel

28:58 - AOC Tries Explaining Statement About Ceasefire

30:38 - Biden Goes To Israel To Ask ‘Tough Questions’

32:02 - Biden Tells Netanyahu Hospital Airstrike Was Done By Hamas

35:33 - Hezbollah Announces 'Day of Unprecedented Anger'

36:34 - Protests Erupt Around The World

39:34 - Berlin Police Set Up Outside Holocaust Memorial

40:41 - PA To Give Hamas Terrorists' Families Close To $3 million In 'Pay-for-Slay'

41:35 - Jordan Cancels Meeting With Arab States, Biden

45:40 - What Comes Next?

47:09 - Biden Seeks To Link Israel Aid With Ukraine

48:43 - Republican Still Don’t Have A Speaker

52:51 - Penn In Crisis Over Anti-Semitism Allegations, Jon Huntsman Halts Donations

As always: TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT