Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
- Josh
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Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
John Holdeman was particularly fascinated by early Anabaptist writers, and most of the ones he could get his hands on were Dutch Anabaptist writers like Philips and Simons. (He also liked Swiss writers like Michael Sattler, but there simply wasn't much material he could find to read from these authors.) John Holdeman was of Swiss Brethren descent himself.
Most of his followers have ended up being of Dutch Mennonite background; to this day, there is a degree of interest in early Anabaptist writers that I haven't really seen anywhere else, except maybe amongst the Elmendorf-type Hutterite colonies or amongst a few other intentionalist-type communities like Gympie Anabaptist Fellowship or the Berne Charity church.
At my home church, as a visitor someone lent me a copy of A Pilgrim Aflame, and occasionally in a men's meeting someone will quote Simons. I simply never saw this happen at all when I was in an Amish-Mennonite background church setting, other than from converts. It is far more likely that various evangelical types of books would be cited, or perhaps a more modern "Anabaptist" writer like John Coblentz or David Bercot.
Most of his followers have ended up being of Dutch Mennonite background; to this day, there is a degree of interest in early Anabaptist writers that I haven't really seen anywhere else, except maybe amongst the Elmendorf-type Hutterite colonies or amongst a few other intentionalist-type communities like Gympie Anabaptist Fellowship or the Berne Charity church.
At my home church, as a visitor someone lent me a copy of A Pilgrim Aflame, and occasionally in a men's meeting someone will quote Simons. I simply never saw this happen at all when I was in an Amish-Mennonite background church setting, other than from converts. It is far more likely that various evangelical types of books would be cited, or perhaps a more modern "Anabaptist" writer like John Coblentz or David Bercot.
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Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
Some thoughts: I've noticed over the years authors and their writings wax and wane in their popularity. It seems to depend on several factors:
-Familiarity: what was once cited often gets tiresome and the congregations want to hear a fresh perspective.
-New authors who are viewed as more relevant and insightful for the present time.
-As Neto mentioned, bad translations creating difficulty in comprehension.
I've seen this happen in Catholic World and the Protestant World too. I think it's human nature to seek fresh perspectives to maintain zeal in discipleship - as long as the perspectives are loyal to Scripture. YMMV
-Familiarity: what was once cited often gets tiresome and the congregations want to hear a fresh perspective.
-New authors who are viewed as more relevant and insightful for the present time.
-As Neto mentioned, bad translations creating difficulty in comprehension.
I've seen this happen in Catholic World and the Protestant World too. I think it's human nature to seek fresh perspectives to maintain zeal in discipleship - as long as the perspectives are loyal to Scripture. YMMV
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
I do not have the patience to try to read the old writings - my dear reader, this is just to much. I want to read what is there, without wading through everything else. I have enjoyed reading books like John Oyer's "They Harry the Good People out of the Land", Friedmann's "Theology of Anabaptism," Klassen's Anabaptism in Outline", and other similar books where they discuss in today's language, some of the early Anabaptist writings.
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- Wayne in Maine
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Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
One problem with reading or studying the old Anabaptist writings is that there are so few of them available in English, or even in modern German.
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Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
Have you noticed any difference in the overall mindset between those who read the "old" stuff vs. those frequently citing the "new"? Any manifested, practical differences?Josh wrote:At my home church, as a visitor someone lent me a copy of A Pilgrim Aflame, and occasionally in a men's meeting someone will quote Simons. I simply never saw this happen at all when I was in an Amish-Mennonite background church setting, other than from converts. It is far more likely that various evangelical types of books would be cited, or perhaps a more modern "Anabaptist" writer like John Coblentz or David Bercot.
I imagined there would be, because as I've read both, I see quite a few differences in the mindset they push the reader towards.
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Ponder anew what the Almighty can do
Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
I've debated learning to read those documents, but I usually settle that if I take the time, I should learn greek.
Personally having read Menno Simons work, with the exception of his "personal" opinion on celestial flesh, I would agree with his thoughts. I haven't studied it out in detail though.
Personally having read Menno Simons work, with the exception of his "personal" opinion on celestial flesh, I would agree with his thoughts. I haven't studied it out in detail though.
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Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
Interpreters, like historians, can't help but be a little bit biased. There will always be a little bit of themselves showing through. Modern language also means more modern thought.
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Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
I share your complaints, but won't sympathize with your sentiments. I believe it takes effort to read this old stuff, but if you really want to know what they said and believed, it's best to get it straight from the source. Christianity in America today seems a bit soft in how dedicated we are to study. And I believe the ways many of us use modern technology has shortened our attention span even more, making it yet more difficult to really study this kind of material.Hats Off wrote:I do not have the patience to try to read the old writings - my dear reader, this is just to much. I want to read what is there, without wading through everything else.
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Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
Neto, I was under the impression that Amman was illiterate, or at least very poorly educated. I'd have to go look up my source for that though...
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Re: Reading Menno Simons, Dirk Philips, etc.
I just did a quick Google search and came up with a PDF as screenshotted below:Heirbyadoption wrote:Neto, I was under the impression that Amman was illiterate, or at least very poorly educated. I'd have to go look up my source for that though...
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