Joining a church vs Actually obeying the rules

[Ken]

One practical reason for not hiding what rule you aren’t keeping, is that you find out whether that rule is one that the church cares about, and means; or if it is a vestigial rule, that is still on the books, but no one cares about anymore.

It would be a bummer to hide your rule breaking, and suffer from guilt and besmirch your conscience needlessly, should it turn out that everyone was A-okay with what you were doing.

We already have an actual rule book and all of us probably own multiple copies of it. And if you don't have yours handy it is easily googled in this day and age. Although it contains vestigial rules too.

I'm always kind of puzzled by churches who feel it isn't good enough and they have to add their own specific addendums and clauses.

[barnhart]

I'm always kind of puzzled by churches who feel it isn't good enough and they have to add their own specific addendums and clauses.

I'm ok with adding things to suit specific times or places but if you add you need to have the courage to take out after the situation it was intended to address no longer exists. I have heard of prohibition against things that barely exist anymore like whitewall tires, cb radios chrome bumpers or joining "secret societies". Maybe Im missing something but I don't think any of those things present a current cultural threat.

[Josh]

I'm always kind of puzzled by churches who feel it isn't good enough and they have to add their own specific addendums and clauses.

I'm ok with adding things to suit specific times or places but if you add you need to have the courage to take out after the situation it was intended to address no longer exists. I have heard of prohibition against things that barely exist anymore like whitewall tires, cb radios chrome bumpers or joining "secret societies". Maybe Im missing something but I don't think any of those things present a current cultural threat.

I would gladly say joining the Freemasons still is something a Christian shouldn’t do.

[steve-in-kville]

cb radios

There's a blast from the past. I had both a CB and a fire/police scanner in my first vehicle

[Joy]

Last night I was talking with a friend and she told me a story that is kind of the opposite of this thread. A woman spoke to her whose husband had passed away, and then she fell for another man. He wanted her to move in with him, which she did, but she felt (of course) guilty about it. She would have lost certain monetary advantages if they married. So she went to her Lutheran pastor for counsel, and he solved the problem for her--he married them in a secret ceremony "without legal consequences." There, all fixed.

I asked what she says when filling out legal documents. "Widowed or single". My reply was, "Loss of revenue vs eternal life." But believe it or not, there was another option -- leave the man and don't move in or marry, and so keep the money. Too late for that, though, as vows have been spoken.

I think my friend reminded her of what the Bible says about lying.

[Josh]

I think it’s fine if someone chooses to be religiously married but not married in the eyes of the state.

Why? Because the government allows people to basically do all the things married people do… except not get legally married. The government could change this if they wanted.

If my wife and I weren’t legally married we could get a lot more benefits. Around $3000 a year more.

If we had 6 kids, it would be closer to $10k a year more.

[ken_sylvania]

I'm always kind of puzzled by churches who feel it isn't good enough and they have to add their own specific addendums and clauses.

I'm ok with adding things to suit specific times or places but if you add you need to have the courage to take out after the situation it was intended to address no longer exists. I have heard of prohibition against things that barely exist anymore like whitewall tires, cb radios chrome bumpers or joining "secret societies". Maybe Im missing something but I don't think any of those things present a current cultural threat.

Secret societies might not be as much of a force as they once were, but they certainly still do exist. As does smut and foul language on CB.

[Ken]

I'm always kind of puzzled by churches who feel it isn't good enough and they have to add their own specific addendums and clauses.

I'm ok with adding things to suit specific times or places but if you add you need to have the courage to take out after the situation it was intended to address no longer exists. I have heard of prohibition against things that barely exist anymore like whitewall tires, cb radios chrome bumpers or joining "secret societies". Maybe Im missing something but I don't think any of those things present a current cultural threat.

I'm OK with a vast array of customs and norms that differ from culture to culture. I think they make the human experience more interesting. And we ourselves live in a society which has its own written and unwritten rules and customs for things like dress, privacy, courtesy, and so forth.

I just don't think they have much to do with Christianity which is a UNIVERSAL religion for all people and all time and not one based on say 16th century rural Anabaptist custom and notions of style.

[barnhart]

I'm always kind of puzzled by churches who feel it isn't good enough and they have to add their own specific addendums and clauses.

I'm ok with adding things to suit specific times or places but if you add you need to have the courage to take out after the situation it was intended to address no longer exists. I have heard of prohibition against things that barely exist anymore like whitewall tires, cb radios chrome bumpers or joining "secret societies". Maybe Im missing something but I don't think any of those things present a current cultural threat.

I'm OK with a vast array of customs and norms that differ from culture to culture. I think they make the human experience more interesting. And we ourselves live in a society which has its own written and unwritten rules and customs for things like dress, privacy, courtesy, and so forth.

I just don't think they have much to do with Christianity which is a UNIVERSAL religion for all people and all time and not one based on say 16th century rural Anabaptist custom and notions of style.

I have some critiques of the imperial model of church planting as well.

[Sudsy]

To the underlined - my salvation is based on my belief in what Jesus did to save me from hell and not my perfect obedience.

But you don't think habitual, repeated, intentional lying will separate you from Jesus' kingdom?

Whoops I guess I missed replying to this.

I think some true believers have a struggle with exaggeration which I believe is also lying. For those, struggling with this sin, I do not believe they will lose their salvation because of it. But those who do 'habitual, repeated, intentional lying', there is also a good chance that they never were born again.

Peter did some terrible lying when he denied Christ 3 times and it was intentional lying too. I don't believe during those lies that Peter was no longer saved or cast out of the Kingdom. Since Peter felt very sad about his sinning and repented that indicates to me that Peter was still saved during that sinning. He denied Jesus to save his flesh but Peter's spirit continued to love Jesus and he became the man God used on the day of Pentecost when 3,000 souls were saved. Peter messed up a lot but Jesus gave Peter a special role in His Kingdom.