The cape dress: Its origins and evolution over the ages

[Josh]

Most fabric that is used by plain people to make dresses these days is made out of polyester, but not recycled. (There is a vast surplus of the feedstock to make this stuff so recycling it doesn’t really make sense; it is basically surplus from the petroleum industry.)

[GoodGirl]

Here is how I personally apply the teachings on modesty. I am aware that some of this could feel rather arbitrary, but it is what I have concluded from two millenniums of Christian history on this topic. I think everybody has an internal guide for where they draw the line. I think the practices of the surrounding society can sometimes mess with the internal guide that God wants us to have. So while I don’t believe that everyone needs to draw the line where I do, neither do I think that all attempts to be modest are equally valid.

1. Strait cut suit coats can be quite expensive (especially if they have a frock tail) and I think such coats fit the definition of costly array. If a church wants a specific identifier for it’s men, a black or navy-shirt made of heavy fabric and a mandarin collar would easily fit the bill, without needing to pay hundreds of dollars for a suit. I found myself in such a dilemma when I was preparing for our wedding day, so my mother bought me a coat because she wanted me to have a new one.
There are lots of ways to spend money on clothing that is costly -whether particular articles or the sheer volume of articles.
2. Avoid glitter, colors that draw attention, or anything else that is ostentatious in a particular culture.
3. I think it is good to cover everything below the neck, above the elbows, and above the ankles.
4. Avoid clothing that makes certain parts of the body more pronounced or more attractive. Don’t wear clothing that when viewed from a distance, gives people the impression that some parts of the body are not covered.

I can agree with this.

I have thought the same thing about plain coats.
Years ago, my husband got his entire plain suit at a friend’s yard sale & it fits him perfectly! But of course that’s rare, I’m sure.

The one thing I would avoid is dresses that go to the ankles, because I’m a clutz. I remember being in an Amish lady’s basement after a big meal down there, and we ladies were carrying the food & things back upstairs.
I felt so stupid because I couldn’t properly hold the front of my dress up in a way that I didn’t step on it going up the stairs, with my hands full of things. It didn’t help that the stairs very polished wood & really slippery. (Her daughter actually fell down them on a different day when I was there.)

But I guess maybe that’s where socks/stockings or leggings come in, to cover the lower parts of our legs.

Many years ago, when I was having my first cape dresses made, I had a very kind ministers wife at a Charity church explain to me that my dresses should cover my clavicle. I had to ask her what a clavicle was! She said the sight of the neck curving into the shoulder was very attractive to a lot of men.

There are so many things I would never think of.

Edited to say- a clavicle is a collar bone.

[MaxPC]

Regarding modesty...

Here are various definitions for which I use the word "modesty"
1. Not wearing costly array
2. Dressing humbly, simply, and without ostentation
3. Covering the body
4. Wearing loose clothing and clothing that helps conceal a person's figure

^^^ I like Ernie's description.

My wife and I agree with Ernie's definition as well. Regarding the concern about "standing out": I had to laugh as there are people with pink mohawk hairdos; piercings in every appendage; tattoos on every visible and invisible body part; etc.

If people object to my wife's simple homemade dresses and head coverings, we have both learned to address the person with the comment that with so many murders in the world, why do they wish to be the fashion police? The shallowness of following fads over Biblical modesty will always be with us yet we can (and do) address the elephant in the room by bringing more stringent concerns to the fore of such commentaries.

[Josh]

The one thing I would avoid is dresses that go to the ankles, because I’m a clutz. I remember being in an Amish lady’s basement after a big meal down there, and we ladies were carrying the food & things back upstairs.
I felt so stupid because I couldn’t properly hold the front of my dress up in a way that I didn’t step on it going up the stairs, with my hands full of things. It didn’t help that the stairs very polished wood & really slippery. (Her daughter actually fell down them on a different day when I was there.)

Back around 2015, I used to associate with Pilgrim / Hope etc. type of Mennonites and go to young people's gatherings to distribute tracts and sing on street corners. That was when the "full length" fad in dresses was in full swing.

One girl there was at a significantly more conservative church (Berea or Ambassadors or something like that, I think); I believe she'd just gone there for a teaching job. She dutifully wore a dress that was the typical length back in the 1930s amongst plain people. Of course, this stuck out like a sore thumb in the group photos.

Many years ago, when I was having my first cape dresses made, I had a very kind ministers wife at a Charity church explain to me that my dresses should cover my clavicle. I had to ask her what a clavicle was! She said the sight of the neck curving into the shoulder was very attractive to a lot of men.

When I hear things like this frankly they seem ridiculous. When I go out and about, who knows what I might see. To give an example from last summer, a local woman was (very) pregnant and felt at liberty to wear just a sports bra. Stomachs, shoulders, and who knows what else is going to be on display, every day.

Whilst I'm not saying the world should determine our dress standards, I'm not sure that it's necessary to worry about things like necks and clavicles. (If there really is such a concern about such things, then a hijab style should be adopted, which is much more practical.)

[Sudsy]

I think women should stay at home because even knowing that she is a woman regardless of how covered she is, she may be an attraction to a man. If she really wants to step out into this evil world, a burqa would seem most appropriate for keeping all that flesh God created, covered. I guess I am using sarcasm.

But really, 'men get a grip on your thoughts !' Are we not capable of self control ? I think men need to take more responsibility in this area of women not trying to entice men to sin. Personally, women have to dress pretty skimpy before I look twice and this has not changed my entire life. All this extreme covering up I don't see as scriptural. There that's my 2 cents.

[JimFoxvog]

I find the men's clothing in Bruegel's painting disturbing. I'm glad that didn't stick.

Leggings for men are becoming more common, so similar. Haven't seed cod pieces except in costume situations. Leggings don't interest me, but I'm happy to see variety.

[RZehr]

Interesting to see how some Christians almost seem to go overboard denying that the way women dress can possibly affect normal men, and that any man that is affected by visual stimulation must have something deeply wrong with them.
Meanwhile, over in the ungodly fashion industry, they are completely unified in the belief that the way people dress does in fact, have power to draw mens attention.

Acknowledging this obvious truth does not mean that you are admitting to a weakness, nor that you cannot function with emotional, mental, spiritual and physiological self control around contemporarily clad women. It's just an acknowledgement of the obvious - An obvious truth that only a very small subset of anti-modesty Christians seem to deny. It is a weird.

[Ken]

Interesting to see how some Christians almost seem to go overboard denying that the way women dress can possibly affect normal men, and that any man that is affected by visual stimulation must have something deeply wrong with them.
Meanwhile, over in the ungodly fashion industry, they are completely unified in the belief that the way people dress does in fact, have power to draw mens attention.

Acknowledging this obvious truth does not mean that you are admitting to a weakness, nor that you cannot function with emotional, mental, spiritual and physiological self control around contemporarily clad women. It's just an acknowledgement of the obvious - An obvious truth that only a very small subset of anti-modesty Christians seem to deny. It is a weird.

I agree.

Frankly dress is a red herring so to speak.

WOMEN can affect men no matter how they dress. I promise you that there is plenty of flirting going on at the average High School despite the vast majority of the girls wearing jeans, sneakers, and hoodies. Or something similarly unrevealing. In fact despite this, the average HS boy is walking around think about girls probably 90% of his time. None of that would change in the slightest if you put them all in cape dresses.

I frankly think the more we focus on women's dress the more it lets boys and men off the hook for inappropriate behavior. Honestly, it shouldn't matter how women dress at all. If a man can't behave himself it is the MAN who should be locked up as a sex offender and not allowed out in mixed company.

That does not mean women shouldn't be aware of how they dress and how they come across to others. And should understand how to dress appropriately for the circumstances and avoid being overtly provocative in most circumstances. That is just common sense that most (not all, but most) women understand. Just for simple safety and to avoid drawing unwanted attention, not for any religious reason.

No matter how they dress, the simple act of a woman going out into public is going to draw attention and provoke some guy's fetish about something. Maybe he likes tall girls or petite ones. Maybe he likes fat girls or thin ones. Maybe he likes long hair or short hair. Maybe he likes hands. Maybe he likes Asian women or blondes. Maybe he likes dresses including Amish or Menno styles. It is frankly an impossible task for a young women to go out in public without drawing attention no matter how she is dressed.

[Ernie]

All this is true and yet I have heard many young men - men who had the opportunity to interact with young ladies who covered more of their bodies or wore less revealing/formfitting clothing that what they were accustomed to - express appreciation for how much easier it was to think about a girl's person and character rather than her body. It's not that they think less about girls, but rather it changes the level of temptation considerably.
(I think any conscientious Christian young man would say something similar.)

Some years ago, I interacted with a newly married, young, conscientious Evangelical man. He and his wife decided she would not wear leggings as most everyone else her age was doing as they did not feel leggings were modest. However, in summer, this same couple were fine with the wife wearing short shorts. From my perspective, I couldn't see the difference between the two - why the one was modest and the other not. But from their perspective, there was a big difference.
So even though I am still baffled by how this couple arrived at their conclusion, and think their parents and grandparents dropped the ball (modesty principles) a long time ago, I still respect this couple for at least caring about modesty enough to draw some lines, even if I think the line seems like a silly one.

[Ken]

All this is true and yet I have heard many young men - men who had the opportunity to interact with young ladies who covered more of their bodies or wore less revealing/formfitting clothing that what they were accustomed to - express appreciation for how much easier it was to think about a girl's person and character rather than her body. It's not that they think less about girls, but rather it changes the level of temptation considerably.
(I think any conscientious Christian young man would say something similar.)

Some years ago, I interacted with a newly married, young, conscientious Evangelical man. He and his wife decided she would not wear leggings as most everyone else her age was doing as they did not feel leggings were modest. However, in summer, this same couple were fine with the wife wearing short shorts. From my perspective, I couldn't see the difference between the two - why the one was modest and the other not. But from their perspective, there was a big difference.
So even though I am still baffled by how this couple arrived at their conclusion, and think their parents and grandparents dropped the ball (modesty principles) a long time ago, I still respect this couple for at least caring about modesty enough to draw some lines, even if I think the line seems like a silly one.

This isn't necessarily a religious thing though. It is a normal common sense of what is appropriate. And how a woman might dress when attending a yoga class or carpooling her kids to school is different from how she might dress in a business meeting or at church. Leggings, for example, are banned at my school outside of PE classes if they are considered "excessively tight" unless they are worn under other clothes like shorts or a skirt. But if they are loose enough like sweats they are OK. If there is ever an issue with a student I call over the female teacher from next door and let her make the call as it is kind of creepy for an older male teacher to be making fine-tune judgements about girl's apparel.

In fact, this is the entire dress code. Most public high schools around the country have something quite similar. None of this is religious. It is simply societal expectations of students when in school. Students who are out of dress code get to sit in the office until a parent brings a change of clothes or they "discover" they have something appropriate in their locker to change into or they wear school-supplied sweats for the rest of the day. If they refuse any of those options they spend the day in in-school-suspension and may get suspended.

At every school I have ever taught at it is only a small number of students who ever push the envelope. For girls it is usually for showing any skin between the neck and mid-thigh, For boys it is usually coming to class with tank tops or too-short athletic shorts. These things are usually developed by school boards and they sort of get added on to on an ad-hoc basis as issues come up over the years.

DRESS & APPEARANCE
Standards for personal appearance and dress are a responsibility of the individual student, parents, and the school administration. It is to be understood that the school standard for appearance will likely be different from the standard outside of school time. Among the purposes of this standard are:

1. To build and reinforce work habits. Most jobs require a standard for dress and appearance. Learning at an early age to accept that standard will make it easier to be successful with appearance later on.
2. To differentiate school time from other time. Students are enrolled in school to learn in a formal or semiformal atmosphere. School is not the streets or the mall. School dress standards set a tone, which reinforces the learning environment.

School Dress Expectations (Applies to both genders)

• Clothing must be size appropriate. Extremely tight feature-revealing clothing or excessively saggy or baggy clothing is not appropriate.
• Shirts, tops, and dresses must have snug fitting arm holes. No spaghetti straps or loose fitting tank tops.
• No low backs, deep scooped necklines, or exposed cleavage.
• Midriff or bare back must not be exposed when involved in normal school activities such as walking, sitting, bending over a desk, raising hand, etc.
• Shorts must be below fingertips when standing with the shoulders relaxed and arms extended at the side.
• Skirts and dresses must be as long as or longer than shorts and must not pose a significant distraction when the student is involved in normal school activities such as walking, sitting, bending, etc.
• Underwear must not be exposed or visible or worn as outerwear.
• Clothing will not be permitted that is sexually provocative, transparent, mutilated, displays offensive language or slogans, advertises any substances a student cannot legally possess, or is gang related.
• Shoes should not pose a safety hazard. State health law requires that shoes be worn in the school at all times. Due to safety, sandals must have back straps. Flip flops (or the like) are forbidden.
• Potentially dangerous apparel items such as large or long chains, spiked clothing or unsafe accessories will not be allowed.
• Hats are not to be worn in the school building during school hours unless necessary during special events or exceptional circumstances.
• Writing on clothing, hands or other parts of the body is unacceptable
• Pajamas are not to be worn, unless allowed for a school activity.
• Athletes must follow this dress code when they are in classes, so cheerleaders for instance will need to wear their warm-ups in class

If the above standards are not met and followed, the students will:

• Get clothes from home or they will be provided
• Discipline slip will be given to the student and mailed home
• Suspension for willful defiance of authority and regulations