Joining a church vs Actually obeying the rules

[Josh]

To the underlined - my salvation is based on my belief in what Jesus did to save me from hell and not my perfect obedience.

But you don't think habitual, repeated, intentional lying will separate you from Jesus' kingdom?

[GoodGirl]

I think that when this couple joined, they were very sincere, and “more Mennonite than the Mennonites” as people say…
But after years & years in plain churches, I think:

1) The obvious hypocrisy (in a lot of plain churches, including theirs) got to them &

3) They realized some of it really wasn’t a sin
(Like what was Jesus doing when he made extra wine for the people, if a glass of wine is a sin?)

Not justifying, just saying.

[Josh]

I think that when this couple joined, they were very sincere, and “more Mennonite than the Mennonites” as people say…
But after years & years in plain churches, I think:

1) The obvious hypocrisy (in a lot of plain churches, including theirs) got to them &

3) They realized some of it really wasn’t a sin
(Like what was Jesus doing when he made extra wine for the people, if a glass of wine is a sin?)

Not justifying, just saying.

In that case, they conforked to the culture. They are now behaving like the other church members.

Perhaps the problem here is with the overall church culture. It doesn’t sound conformed to the image of Christ.

[GoodGirl]

To quote from another thread, Ken said:

[/quote]

So just like with Watergate, it's not the crime, its the coverup?
[/quote]

I’m not that familiar with Watergate, but yes- this is exactly my question.

Say we can agree it’s not a literal sin to have a glass of wine & watch a decent movie… but if you publicly agreed not to… then does it become a sin?

I think I know the answer, but it also somehow seems more nuanced IRL, when it’s real people, real churches, etc.

[Soloist]

I think I know the answer, but it also somehow seems more nuanced IRL, when it’s real people, real churches, etc.

Are you prepared to say you aren’t following it if someone asked you?

[Ken]

This isn't anything unique to plain churches or plain culture.

When I lived in Texas I heard endless Baptist jokes along these same lines.

• "Why do you always bring two Baptists along when you go fishing?" Answer: "Because if you bring just one he will drink all your beer"
• "What is the difference between a Methodist and a Baptist?" Answer: A Methodist will say hi to you in the liquor store"
• "There are three immutable religious truths: (1) That Jews don’t recognize Jesus as Messiah, (2) That Protestants don’t recognize the Pope as the head of the church, and (3) That Baptists don’t recognize each other at the liquor store.

and so forth...

[GoodGirl]

Are you prepared to say you aren’t following it if someone asked you?

Personally, yes. I hate lying.

But thankfully, I’m in a position, church wise, that I wouldn’t need to lie.

[GoodGirl]

This isn't anything unique to plain churches or plain culture.

When I lived in Texas I heard endless Baptist jokes along these same lines.

• "Why do you always bring two Baptists along when you go fishing?" Answer: "Because if you bring just one he will drink all your beer"
• "What is the difference between a Methodist and a Baptist?" Answer: A Methodist will say hi to you in the liquor store"
• "There are three immutable religious truths: (1) That Jews don’t recognize Jesus as Messiah, (2) That Protestants don’t recognize the Pope as the head of the church, and (3) That Baptists don’t recognize each other at the liquor store.

and so forth...

So it’s more of just the human condition, not an anabaptist thing.

[GoodGirl]

In that case, they conforked to the culture. They are now behaving like the other church members.

Yes~ This!

PS- I must just be in a fun mood tonight, but ‘conforked’ cracked me up.

[RZehr]

One practical reason for not hiding what rule you aren’t keeping, is that you find out whether that rule is one that the church cares about, and means; or if it is a vestigial rule, that is still on the books, but no one cares about anymore.

It would be a bummer to hide your rule breaking, and suffer from guilt and besmirch your conscience needlessly, should it turn out that everyone was A-okay with what you were doing.