Too big, too small, or just right??
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appleman2006
Re: Too big, too small, or just right??
Yes and no. Extremely fast growth can bring with it it's own set of problems.
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Once Again
Re: Too big, too small, or just right??
Are the newcomers converts or switching from other CA churches?
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Sudsy
Re: Too big, too small, or just right??
I've been in churches that were stagnant and looking over everyone's shoulder to see if they were living up to expectations and I've been in churches were growth was booming and we were busy trying to keep up with giving the new babes in Christ proper milk and understanding. I'll take the latter anytime.
And I've been in a church that broke out of being stagnant and changed their focus to reach many unsaved. Many from that period are busy serving the Lord in various ministries and churches and we try to get together now and then to catch up on what God is doing.
In my experience, there is nothing more abundant in the Christian life than to be involved in a growing church. Not growing because of church hopping, which does come when growth occurs, but growth primarily reaching the unchurched. Baptisms not primarily to 'join the church' but rather baptisms as a symbol of a recent born again experience.
I think it safe to say if the church we attend is not seeing new conversions to Christ from the unchurched world, then something is drastically lacking in our obedience. To follow Jesus is to 'seek and to save those who are lost' then teach them to become disciples that carry on that mission.
'Just right' church size then, imo, is being able to make disciples that make more disciples and then branch off and create more local churches.
And I've been in a church that broke out of being stagnant and changed their focus to reach many unsaved. Many from that period are busy serving the Lord in various ministries and churches and we try to get together now and then to catch up on what God is doing.
In my experience, there is nothing more abundant in the Christian life than to be involved in a growing church. Not growing because of church hopping, which does come when growth occurs, but growth primarily reaching the unchurched. Baptisms not primarily to 'join the church' but rather baptisms as a symbol of a recent born again experience.
I think it safe to say if the church we attend is not seeing new conversions to Christ from the unchurched world, then something is drastically lacking in our obedience. To follow Jesus is to 'seek and to save those who are lost' then teach them to become disciples that carry on that mission.
'Just right' church size then, imo, is being able to make disciples that make more disciples and then branch off and create more local churches.
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Josh
Re: Too big, too small, or just right??
Definitely agree with Sudsy here.
That criteria is a big part of why I’m at church where I am at.
That criteria is a big part of why I’m at church where I am at.
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YorkandAdams
Re: Too big, too small, or just right??
My church has only seen growth from the those going "downstream" to a less conservative setting.Once Again wrote:Are the newcomers converts or switching from other CA churches?
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MaxPC
Re: Too big, too small, or just right??
Sudsy wrote:I've been in churches that were stagnant and looking over everyone's shoulder to see if they were living up to expectations and I've been in churches were growth was booming and we were busy trying to keep up with giving the new babes in Christ proper milk and understanding. I'll take the latter anytime.
And I've been in a church that broke out of being stagnant and changed their focus to reach many unsaved. Many from that period are busy serving the Lord in various ministries and churches and we try to get together now and then to catch up on what God is doing.
In my experience, there is nothing more abundant in the Christian life than to be involved in a growing church. Not growing because of church hopping, which does come when growth occurs, but growth primarily reaching the unchurched. Baptisms not primarily to 'join the church' but rather baptisms as a symbol of a recent born again experience.
I think it safe to say if the church we attend is not seeing new conversions to Christ from the unchurched world, then something is drastically lacking in our obedience. To follow Jesus is to 'seek and to save those who are lost' then teach them to become disciples that carry on that mission.
'Just right' church size then, imo, is being able to make disciples that make more disciples and then branch off and create more local churches.
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Soloist
Re: Too big, too small, or just right??
The Bible has the instruction to submit to the bishop. Also Paul was going to the local (house) churches and appointing leaders. He laid out the instructions on who is qualified.Peregrino wrote: Just curious, on what would you base this thought? Is it something you see in Jesus' teachings or from personal observation? I have heard this sentiment before but I never quite got the reasoning behind it.
There wasn't a situation stated were one church didn't have someone qualified to be a leader at that time from what we see.
A pure brotherhood without leadership will split... its only a matter of time. Thats not to say a leader can necessarily prevent that... but it helps.
I'm an outsider but I've seen churches with leaders, without leaders, with oversight from other states... One church I went to for some time the Bishop (in another state) couldn't even remember who I was and problems came up and he came out to fix them. These problems could have been resolved by local leadership. Also it seems like if there isn't a qualified leader there is the replacement of a proper leader with the so called moderator which effectively is a pastor without the ordaining process. I believe ordaining isn't anything fancy, it just meant picking the qualified person and telling them they are it.
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Wade
Re: Too big, too small, or just right??
Soloist wrote:The Bible has the instruction to submit to the bishop. Also Paul was going to the local (house) churches and appointing leaders. He laid out the instructions on who is qualified.Peregrino wrote: Just curious, on what would you base this thought? Is it something you see in Jesus' teachings or from personal observation? I have heard this sentiment before but I never quite got the reasoning behind it.
There wasn't a situation stated were one church didn't have someone qualified to be a leader at that time from what we see.
A pure brotherhood without leadership will split... its only a matter of time. Thats not to say a leader can necessarily prevent that... but it helps.
I'm an outsider but I've seen churches with leaders, without leaders, with oversight from other states... One church I went to for some time the Bishop (in another state) couldn't even remember who I was and problems came up and he came out to fix them. These problems could have been resolved by local leadership. Also it seems like if there isn't a qualified leader there is the replacement of a proper leader with the so called moderator which effectively is a pastor without the ordaining process. I believe ordaining isn't anything fancy, it just meant picking the qualified person and telling them they are it.
Advice like this could have changed so much of the last few years of my family's lives.
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KingdomBuilder
Re: Too big, too small, or just right??
The SBC church I was brought up in has surged in numbers in the past decades...it's gone from a few hundred to 2,000+. Both of those numbers are too bi for me.
My current DoC church averages about 30, and when people miss service, it can seem a bit barren. So perhaps around 60-70 would be an ideal church size for me.
My current DoC church averages about 30, and when people miss service, it can seem a bit barren. So perhaps around 60-70 would be an ideal church size for me.
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