Bunny Trails

[Ken]

Oh Ken. At first I thought to just laugh at you, then remembered bigots can have guns and be dangerous.
Tell me, when you watched Elmer Gantry, did you think he was the hero of the movie?

Go ahead and explain all the circumstances under Catholic doctrine that it is OK to do wrong as long as that wrongdoing is "usual and customary" in wider society.

I'm curious to hear what that are.

Driving 56 MPH in a 55 zone would be an obvious example.

That is something you shouldn't do and if you are caught then arguing that everyone else does it isn't a legitimate defense. Over 40,000 Americans die in traffic crashes every year and that number is increasing so reckless driving and speeding are not without consequence. They are a growing problem. The numbers of pedestrians killed by speeding vehicles is also increasing.

In any event, speeding is not mentioned in the Bible, but paying your taxes is. Although I do expect that Roman roads did have rules and if asked, Jesus would have said that you should follow them.

[Josh]

That is something you shouldn't do and if you are caught then arguing that everyone else does it isn't a legitimate defense. Over 40,000 Americans die in traffic crashes every year and that number is increasing so reckless driving and speeding are not without consequence. They are a growing problem. The numbers of pedestrians killed by speeding vehicles is also increasing.

In any event, speeding is not mentioned in the Bible, but paying your taxes is. Although I do expect that Roman roads did have rules and if asked, Jesus would have said that you should follow them.

I don't think the Catholic priest said anything about a legitimate defence (and "a Catholic priest said it's OK to break the law" isn't typically a valid legal defence). It was more about whether it is moral or not.

Driving 56 in a 55 zone in America is, quite obviously, not immoral.

[Ken]

That is something you shouldn't do and if you are caught then arguing that everyone else does it isn't a legitimate defense. Over 40,000 Americans die in traffic crashes every year and that number is increasing so reckless driving and speeding are not without consequence. They are a growing problem. The numbers of pedestrians killed by speeding vehicles is also increasing.

In any event, speeding is not mentioned in the Bible, but paying your taxes is. Although I do expect that Roman roads did have rules and if asked, Jesus would have said that you should follow them.

I don't think the Catholic priest said anything about a legitimate defence (and "a Catholic priest said it's OK to break the law" isn't typically a valid legal defence). It was more about whether it is moral or not.

Driving 56 in a 55 zone in America is, quite obviously, not immoral.

The subject of this is whether certain tax deductions are legitimate. And the example cited by Jay was a Catholic priest excusing certain types of tax evasion if they are usual and customary by others in the community. I'm not sure why you are going on about speeding which is a civil fine and not a criminal or moral issue.

[Josh]

The subject of this is whether certain tax deductions are legitimate. And the example cited by Jay was a Catholic priest excusing certain types of tax evasion if they are usual and customary by others in the community. I'm not sure why you are going on about speeding which is a civil fine and not a criminal or moral issue.

Traffic law (at least where I live) is criminal, not civil. The courts rarely assess a prison sentence for speeding, though.

Many countries where Catholics live have corrupt governments and even more corrupt taxation regimes, and yes, most people probably couldn't figure out what legitimate taxes to pay if they even tried.

America isn't one of those (at least in my experience), other than a few very obscure taxes like use tax, which virtually nobody complies with, at least at an individual level.

[Ken]

The subject of this is whether certain tax deductions are legitimate. And the example cited by Jay was a Catholic priest excusing certain types of tax evasion if they are usual and customary by others in the community. I'm not sure why you are going on about speeding which is a civil fine and not a criminal or moral issue.

Traffic law (at least where I live) is criminal, not civil. The courts rarely assess a prison sentence for speeding, though.

Many countries where Catholics live have corrupt governments and even more corrupt taxation regimes, and yes, most people probably couldn't figure out what legitimate taxes to pay if they even tried.

America isn't one of those (at least in my experience), other than a few very obscure taxes like use tax, which virtually nobody complies with, at least at an individual level.

I have been to many Catholic countries with lots of corruption. But in no case was there any confusion about what taxes were owed even when tax evasion was pervasive. That is a canard. Often it is just venders who don't charge sales tax for cash sales in an attempt to increase their sales under the table so to speak. But adding to the corruption through your own corrupt acts does not make things better, it makes things worse because you, yourself become part of the problem.

[Josh]

I have been to many Catholic countries with lots of corruption. But in no case was there any confusion about what taxes were owed even when tax evasion was pervasive. That is a canard. Often it is just venders who don't charge sales tax for cash sales in an attempt to increase their sales under the table so to speak. But adding to the corruption through your own corrupt acts does not make things better, it makes things worse because you, yourself become part of the problem.

As I understand it, in Brazil, for business owners or farmers, they go to their accountant and the accountant basically asks how much taxes they feel they can pay. Then the accountant gets busy figuring out the actual numbers. This is not how accounting is done in America.

The Brazilian system is notoriously corrupt (see https://www.internationaltaxreview.com/ ... -in-brazil ). The nominal tax rate for a typical company ends up being 68%. This is honoured more in breach than observance; estimates are that about 60% of taxes nominally owed go uncollected.

From https://www.avalara.com/blog/en/north-a ... razil.html ,

Domestic businesses with 10 to 50 employees typically spend an astounding 2,600 hours complying with Brazil’s tax code each year — more than eight times longer than is usually spent on tax compliance in the United States or European Union.

Given the absolute nightmare of compliance in that environment, I would agree with the priest who would tell a small business owner to simply do what is customary that everyone else does in this particular department.

Or I suppose he could make you happy, try to file and pay the taxes owed, and then go out of business and fire his workers because he won't have any money left to pay them.

[Ken]

I don't know how Ohio works. But I did that when we move to Texas.

I bought a car in Oregon tax-free and then registered it in Texas where they didn't charge sales tax. It has been some years but as I recall, in order to pull it off I had to license the car first in Oregon (using my parent's address) so that it had an Oregon registration and plates. And then keep it for some months before re-registering it in Texas. Had I just showed up in Texas with a freshly bought car from out-of-state bearing temporary dealer plates I would have owed sales tax.

The key was making it look like I was just moving to Texas with an already existing car that I owned rather than a Texan bringing in a recently purchased car from out of state. It wasn't fraud because we were, in fact, moving from Alaska to Texas by way of Oregon. But I did make sure that I met all the time requirements in the Texas DMV regulations to avoid tax.

Point being, the answer may be complicated.

[ken_sylvania]

I don't know how Ohio works. But I did that when we move to Texas.

I bought a car in Oregon tax-free and then registered it in Texas where they didn't charge sales tax. It has been some years but as I recall, in order to pull it off I had to license the car first in Oregon (using my parent's address) so that it had an Oregon registration and plates. And then keep it for some months before re-registering it in Texas. Had I just showed up in Texas with a freshly bought car from out-of-state bearing temporary dealer plates I would have owed sales tax.

The key was making it look like I was just moving to Texas with an already existing car that I owned rather than a Texan bringing in a recently purchased car from out of state. It wasn't fraud because we were, in fact, moving from Alaska to Texas by way of Oregon. But I did make sure that I met all the time requirements in the Texas DMV regulations to avoid tax.

Point being, the answer may be complicated.

Why did you use your parents address in Oregon instead of your own residence address in Oregon?

[Ken]

I don't know how Ohio works. But I did that when we move to Texas.

I bought a car in Oregon tax-free and then registered it in Texas where they didn't charge sales tax. It has been some years but as I recall, in order to pull it off I had to license the car first in Oregon (using my parent's address) so that it had an Oregon registration and plates. And then keep it for some months before re-registering it in Texas. Had I just showed up in Texas with a freshly bought car from out-of-state bearing temporary dealer plates I would have owed sales tax.

The key was making it look like I was just moving to Texas with an already existing car that I owned rather than a Texan bringing in a recently purchased car from out of state. It wasn't fraud because we were, in fact, moving from Alaska to Texas by way of Oregon. But I did make sure that I met all the time requirements in the Texas DMV regulations to avoid tax.

Point being, the answer may be complicated.

Why did you use your parents address in Oregon instead of your own residence address in Oregon?

We were moving from Juneau Alaska to Waco Texas for my wife to start her medical residency. There is no cheap way to move directly so we shipped our stuff down via barge to Seattle and then stored it to later haul out to Texas by rental truck. My wife had just given birth to our second daughter so we decided to spend a couple months in Oregon with my parents with the newborn and older daughter before heading to Texas. My wife stayed back in Oregon with the kids while I went flew out for house hunting and such.

Our Alaska car was a old 4x4 Pathfinder that was getting rusted out from the salt and sea spray of Juneau so we sold it and left if there and needed a new car in Oregon to then drive out to Texas. We used my parents address as our official Oregon address for those couple months as we had no other address having sold the house in Juneau and not yet found one in Texas. So we bought a minivan in Oregon to drive out and use in Texas. But registered it in Oregon first since we used it there for a month or two first before driving to Texas.

As I recall, if the vehicle is newly purchased you need to show the sales tax receipt from the previous state in order to avoid sales tax in Texas. Which one obviously can’t do coming from Oregon. But if it is older than 90 days (don’t remember the exact time period) then it is no longer considered a newly purchased vehicle and it is just a title and registration transfer to the new state of your existing possession and not considered a purchase.

Of course Ohio might be entirely different. But there might well be nuances as in Texas which make the answer very much an answer that depends on exact circumstances.

[Neto]

I don't know how Ohio works. But I did that when we move to Texas.

I bought a car in Oregon tax-free and then registered it in Texas where they didn't charge sales tax. It has been some years but as I recall, in order to pull it off I had to license the car first in Oregon (using my parent's address) so that it had an Oregon registration and plates. And then keep it for some months before re-registering it in Texas. Had I just showed up in Texas with a freshly bought car from out-of-state bearing temporary dealer plates I would have owed sales tax.

The key was making it look like I was just moving to Texas with an already existing car that I owned rather than a Texan bringing in a recently purchased car from out of state. It wasn't fraud because we were, in fact, moving from Alaska to Texas by way of Oregon. But I did make sure that I met all the time requirements in the Texas DMV regulations to avoid tax.

Point being, the answer may be complicated.

There is a minimum period during which you are legally allowed to live in Texas before you must register any vehicle you own there. I was challenged in court about that when I lived in Texas, but the vehicle was in my Dad's name, so the law did not apply. Even though my residency there was only temporary, they would have fined me for that, because I had been there past that limit, whatever it was.