mike wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:21 pm
So, is it then the case that a percentage of conservative Anabaptists remain such not because of personal conviction but because they are inside a social structure of some sort that incentivizes being part of the community? I.e. a family, local congregation, or church conference.
Yes. I think most of us in this conversation if we found ourselves in a disfunctional authoritarian church
would gladly move to a stable church with competent servant leaders even if it was a notch more conservative or liberal on the Mennonite scale than our personal preference.
mike wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 5:21 pm
So, is it then the case that a percentage of conservative Anabaptists remain such not because of personal conviction but because they are inside a social structure of some sort that incentivizes being part of the community? I.e. a family, local congregation, or church conference.
Yes. I think most of us in this conversation if we found ourselves in a disfunctional authoritarian church
would gladly move to a stable church with competent servant leaders even if it was a notch more conservative or liberal on the Mennonite scale than our personal preference.
Most people move to a more liberal church. (Around 15% of the time I’d say people move more conservative.)
Likewise, young couples who get married from two different congregations almost always choose the more liberal church.
wesleyb wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 9:24 am
My family was Virginia Conference going back many generations. My parents went with Southeastern in 1972 when that split off. I have one brother who is still there and has raised his family there.
I did a quick calculation and it looks like out my high school class and the ones immediately before and after about 30% are still in Southeastern, about 30% are in other Mennonite churches and 40% have left the Mennonites altogether. It would be interesting to know how this compares to other conservative Mennonites.
It would be interesting to know. Those numbers seem pretty high to me but I have no way of knowing how they compare to loss rates in other conferences.
According to Wikipedia, here are numbers for EPMC:
In 1969, the Eastern Pennsylvania Mennonite Church and Related Areas had 27 congregations with 1,181 church members; in 1995 it had 59 churches with 3,434 members.[3] In 2001 there were 4,206 members.[4] In 2010, it had 77 congregations with 5,333 members. In 2020 it had 95 congregations, 6,656 members, 27 Bishops, 179 Ministers and 113 Deacons. In 2019,the Church also had 84 schools, 300 teachers and 2,679 pupils.
Both Eastern and Pilgrim do a lot of going into an area where there are problems and starting churches for the disgruntled members.
Southeastern has never moved into other Mennonite areas, correct?
Eastern, Pilgrim, Nationwide, Charity, Northeast and the Holdeman's will start in Mennoland, but don't think that Southeastern ever has moved into an area for disgruntled people.
I still am waiting for someone to do a church plant in Louisiana. The two Holdeman churches in the top most of Louisiana is the only thing there is. For all the anti-holdemanism there is, no one has planted a church there. For all the hurricane relief we send, no one has tried harvesting this region. Instead we plant 30 minutes to an hour away and statistically speaking, by the time it would reach New Orleans, whatever remains will either be Amish or liberal.
AndersonD wrote:
Southeastern has never moved into other Mennonite areas, correct?
Eastern, Pilgrim, Nationwide, Charity, Northeast and the Holdeman's will start in Mennoland, but don't think that Southeastern ever has moved into an area for disgruntled people.
I think that is accurate. I know the founding stories of nearly all the congregations in GA and SC, those locations were chosen because there were no Anabaptists there. The Virginia congregations are much older and I don't know as much about their origins. Wesleyb likely knows more about that region. Some of the congregations like Bank Mennonite date to the colonial era when many of the inhabitants would have been Indigenous.
barnhart wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:52 am
I think that is accurate. I know the founding stories of nearly all the congregations in GA and SC, those locations were chosen because there were no Anabaptists there. The Virginia congregations are much older and I don't know as much about their origins. Wesleyb likely knows more about that region. Some of the congregations like Bank Mennonite date to the colonial era when many of the inhabitants would have been Indigenous.
Yes I think that's right. Although there have been Mennonites in this area since 1727, they didn't really establish churches until the early to mid 1800's. Bank was around 1850, Trissels and Weavers would have been earlier.
There’s also a congregation near DeRidder LA and the congregation in Lake Providence is located in what is one of the poorest communities in the entire country. At this point, the Mennonite run businesses are a significant part of what is left of the local economy.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:50 pm
There’s also a congregation near DeRidder LA and the congregation in Lake Providence is located in what is one of the poorest communities in the entire country. At this point, the Mennonite run businesses are a significant part of what is left of the local economy.
DeRidder is a good place. If Mennonites won’t, at least Holdeman are.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:50 pm
There’s also a congregation near DeRidder LA and the congregation in Lake Providence is located in what is one of the poorest communities in the entire country. At this point, the Mennonite run businesses are a significant part of what is left of the local economy.
DeRidder is a good place. If Mennonites won’t, at least Holdeman are.
What did you like about it? It didn’t really strike my fancy.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Nov 14, 2023 9:50 pm
There’s also a congregation near DeRidder LA and the congregation in Lake Providence is located in what is one of the poorest communities in the entire country. At this point, the Mennonite run businesses are a significant part of what is left of the local economy.
DeRidder is a good place. If Mennonites won’t, at least Holdeman are.
What did you like about it? It didn’t really strike my fancy.
Nothing overly outside of its location. Nearer to Lake Charles and Alexandria.
I wouldn’t expect to Grass Seed farmer to want to move to Louisiana. Unless you wanted to try growing sugarcane.