White Privilege?

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Post Reply
barnhart
Posts: 3129
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Location: Brooklyn
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: White Privilege?

Post by barnhart »

Ken wrote: Mon Oct 30, 2023 9:57 pm
"White" is a moving target in this country because race is a social construct (invention).

The Irish were not considered "white" when they were first immigrating to the US during the 19th Century. For that matter, neither were Italians and Jews. Even though both are considered "white" today here in the US.
Here is Benjamin Franklin considering the whiteness and suitably of my ancestors who were in Virginia for several generations by this time.
English from Britain sent to America, will have their Places at Home so soon supply’d and increase so largely here; why should the Palatine Boors [Germans] be suffered to swarm into our Settlements, and by herding together establish their Language and Manners to the Exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionally very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? ...
1 x
RZehr
Posts: 7345
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 12:42 am
Affiliation: Cons. Mennonite

Re: White Privilege?

Post by RZehr »

barnhart wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:20 am Here is Benjamin Franklin considering the whiteness and suitably of my ancestors who were in Virginia for several generations by this time.
English from Britain sent to America, will have their Places at Home so soon supply’d and increase so largely here; why should the Palatine Boors [Germans] be suffered to swarm into our Settlements, and by herding together establish their Language and Manners to the Exclusion of ours? Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion.

Which leads me to add one Remark: That the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionally very small. All Africa is black or tawny. Asia chiefly tawny. America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased. And while we are, as I may call it, Scouring our Planet, by clearing America of Woods, and so making this Side of our Globe reflect a brighter Light to the Eyes of Inhabitants in mars or Venus, why should we in the Sight of Superior Beings, darken its People? why increase the Sons of Africa, by Planting them in America, where we have so fair an Opportunity, by excluding all Blacks and Tawneys, of increasing the lovely White and Red? ...
looks Like it He was Wrong about The germans Failing to Adopt his Way. donald Trump, of German ancestry, Follows the Very same Capitalization rules Of thomas Jefferson.
0 x
User avatar
ohio jones
Posts: 5367
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
Location: undisclosed
Affiliation: Rosedale Network

Re: White Privilege?

Post by ohio jones »

RZehr wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:09 pm looks Like it He was Wrong about The germans Failing to Adopt his Way. donald Trump, of German ancestry, Follows the Very same Capitalization rules Of thomas Jefferson.
The capitalization of Nouns has been abandoned in the English Language but is still present in German. Trump, I am Convinced, Randomly capitalizes Words rather than following established Rules like Franklin (or Trump's own Forefathers) did.
1 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
ken_sylvania
Posts: 4171
Joined: Tue Nov 01, 2016 12:46 pm
Affiliation: CM

Re: White Privilege?

Post by ken_sylvania »

ohio jones wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:07 pm
RZehr wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:09 pm looks Like it He was Wrong about The germans Failing to Adopt his Way. donald Trump, of German ancestry, Follows the Very same Capitalization rules Of thomas Jefferson.
The capitalization of Nouns has been abandoned in the English Language but is still present in German. Trump, I am Convinced, Randomly capitalizes Words rather than following established Rules like Franklin (or Trump's own Forefathers) did.
That's ridiculous. It's a Hidden code used to Communicate with his Followers.
1 x
Ernie
Posts: 5599
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2016 2:48 pm
Location: Central PA
Affiliation: Anabaptist Umbrella
Contact:

Re: White Privilege?

Post by Ernie »

ken_sylvania wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:28 pm
ohio jones wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:07 pm
RZehr wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:09 pm looks Like it He was Wrong about The germans Failing to Adopt his Way. donald Trump, of German ancestry, Follows the Very same Capitalization rules Of thomas Jefferson.
The capitalization of Nouns has been abandoned in the English Language but is still present in German. Trump, I am Convinced, Randomly capitalizes Words rather than following established Rules like Franklin (or Trump's own Forefathers) did.
That's ridiculous. It's a Hidden code used to Communicate with his Followers.
Thanks for lightening my day! :-)
0 x
The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
User avatar
ohio jones
Posts: 5367
Joined: Wed Oct 19, 2016 11:23 pm
Location: undisclosed
Affiliation: Rosedale Network

Re: White Privilege?

Post by ohio jones »

ken_sylvania wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 6:28 pm
ohio jones wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:07 pm
RZehr wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:09 pm looks Like it He was Wrong about The germans Failing to Adopt his Way. donald Trump, of German ancestry, Follows the Very same Capitalization rules Of thomas Jefferson.
The capitalization of Nouns has been abandoned in the English Language but is still present in German. Trump, I am Convinced, Randomly capitalizes Words rather than following established Rules like Franklin (or Trump's own Forefathers) did.
That's ridiculous. It's a Hidden code used to Communicate with his Followers.
Could it be that Our former president Veils the messages for his Followers in such an Enigmatic fashion that it is difficult for even the Faithful to un-Encrypt?
0 x
I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins

I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
NedFlanders
Posts: 360
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2023 10:25 am
Affiliation: CA

Re: White Privilege?

Post by NedFlanders »

Laudatefan wrote: Sun Oct 29, 2023 6:53 am To many of us, our communities are too ethnically monolithic. I'm wondering if the phrase "white privilege" is helpful or offensive? Here is some food for thought on the topic.

https://www.csmedia1.com/neffmc.org/white-privilege.pdf

How can we better diversify? For those in the Lancaster area, there are even small groups offered on this topic. It seems more important than the amount of air time that it is getting.
I don’t think “white” matters. But privileged - Yes!
So when someone says “white privileged” the whole point is lost because of the race card being played.

The Mennonite raised brothers and sisters I know are extremely privileged in growing up in secure, stable, happy homes and even if they are aware of it - it doesn’t seem to help them relate to others who were not.

They have opportunity to learn better how to run business and be successful financially, how to be more frugal and have a frugal spouse in working together with things like for example gardening.

My example is growing up in an entertainment fun seeking worldly family with only two children. Who lived in town with one vehicle and could just walk everywhere. And a family who had no business sense or much handy man abilities passed on.

So now I have joined the Mennonite church, have the largest family our congregation, have a wife who doesn’t garden and complains if I say something about her buying from the health food store at 2-3x the cost, we have 3 vehicles so we can drive the children to the church school and have a work vehicle to start our own business to try to survive - I work two full time jobs and have 5hrs of sleep between the last two days just trying to break even and not go in debt further each month just to buy the necessities - and I am failing we are going deeper in debt each month…

Then when I talk to my brothers in the church about it they say, “Ned, you really need to take care of yourself and get some proper sleep.”

I stay quiet but inside I’m thinking, “Thanks, genius I never knew that. Do you actually think I enjoy getting less than 5hrs of sleep for months on end just to not make my bill payments?! Why not say you are inspired by such a desire to not neglect family needs??”

What about;
James 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
James 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?

It is privileged people who just assume your opportunity is the same as theirs. They don’t recognize how big a difference it is to not have the support, the opportunity, the training as a child, an encouraging spouse, and so on…. We don’t want pity but stop telling us to get more sleep or do something you can do because of your privilege and different opportunities you’ve had that we never did.

So bringing “white” to the table only distracts from the real very prevalent problem that keeps outsiders from being able to even physically and financially come close to trying or maintaining the privileged Mennonite lifestyle. And that privilege is stopping evangelism possibly more than anything action as far as I see.
0 x
Psalms 119:2 Blessed are they that keep his testimonies, and that seek him with the whole heart.
barnhart
Posts: 3129
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2019 9:59 pm
Location: Brooklyn
Affiliation: Mennonite

Re: White Privilege?

Post by barnhart »

Ned, I believe you, it's hard to be a cultural outsider. On this point we agree. But consider that same experience may extend to people who are outsiders by race. Is it possible they may not be "playing the race card" for advantage but rather describing reality from their perspective just as you are.
2 x
User avatar
steve-in-kville
Posts: 9718
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 5:36 pm
Location: Pennsylvania
Affiliation: Hippie Anabaptist

Re: White Privilege?

Post by steve-in-kville »

NedFlanders wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:27 pm

The Mennonite raised brothers and sisters I know are extremely privileged in growing up in secure, stable, happy homes and even if they are aware of it - it doesn’t seem to help them relate to others who were not.

They have opportunity to learn better how to run business and be successful financially, how to be more frugal and have a frugal spouse in working together with things like for example gardening.

I don't know you, and you don't know me, but I think you need to find another group to fellowship with. I was once part of a church that had similar traits like you describe.... didn't end well.
1 x
I self-identify as a conspiracy theorist. My pronouns are told/you/so.

Owner/admin at https://milepost81.com/
My *almost* daily blog: https://milepost81.com/blog/
For railfans: https://milepost81.com/home/random-railfan-posts/
Szdfan
Posts: 4316
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2016 11:34 am
Location: The flat part of Colorado
Affiliation: MCUSA

Re: White Privilege?

Post by Szdfan »

ohio jones wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 1:07 pm
RZehr wrote: Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:09 pm looks Like it He was Wrong about The germans Failing to Adopt his Way. donald Trump, of German ancestry, Follows the Very same Capitalization rules Of thomas Jefferson.
The capitalization of Nouns has been abandoned in the English Language but is still present in German. Trump, I am Convinced, Randomly capitalizes Words rather than following established Rules like Franklin (or Trump's own Forefathers) did.
I am deeply Convicted that Donald Trump does not care about the Rules and Grammar Conventions of English.
0 x
“It’s easy to make everything a conspiracy when you don’t know how anything works.” — Brandon L. Bradford
Post Reply