The Anabaptist perception towards addiction rehab facilities!

[Nomad]

I'm not a professional and I can't speak for everyone's experience. But from what I've seen, addicts can be master manipulators. When church congregations or family's attempt to "fix" the addict then it often fails due to the church/ family being emotionally invested to the addicted individual. People who want the addict to get cured are susceptible to being played by the false dialog of the addicted person.

I think that could be a positive side to these recovery programs since professionals who see this manipulative behavior know how to see right through it rather than be swept away by the hope that they actually are getting better. Not that the program works every time of course...it still comes down to the individuals desire to want to quit.

I know of 1 individual who is clean going on 16yrs after completing AA. So there are some success stories. If it works for a few then its worth it to me.

[mike]

I’m aware of a person who has been a serial adulterer for decades including spending prison time for corruption of minors who has been in and out of church membership. The latest episode has his church apparently requiring him to seek therapy at an addiction treatment facility. I don’t know what the typical effectiveness is of strong arming somebody into a facility like this but I suspect it isn’t great. However what other tools does a church have to help someone with issues to this extent other than just writing them off as a hopeless case?

[flyingnorm]

I'm not a professional and I can't speak for everyone's experience. But from what I've seen, addicts can be master manipulators. When church congregations or family's attempt to "fix" the addict then it often fails due to the church/ family being emotionally invested to the addicted individual. People who want the addict to get cured are susceptible to being played by the false dialog of the addicted person.

I think that could be a positive side to these recovery programs since professionals who see this manipulative behavior know how to see right through it rather than be swept away by the hope that they actually are getting better. Not that the program works every time of course...it still comes down to the individuals desire to want to quit.

I know of 1 individual who is clean going on 16yrs after completing AA. So there are some success stories. If it works for a few then its worth it to me.

This is where the successful programs are both wise as serpents and as harmless as doves. There needs to be a great deal of responsibility for the recovery given to the addict while also giving them hope through Christ.

The harm reduction models seem to be wreaking havoc on people.

The psychotherapy models seem to deal with emotional challenges but sometimes ignore spiritual needs.

The intake process matters a great deal. The programming matters.

The earlier comments about work camps seem to me to have more to do with totalitarian regimes than with the redemptive love of Christ.

[Marylander]

Many moons ago, I started this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4774&hilit=pure+life

Individual in question is now home with his family. To say that the situation went sideways is an understatement. The church paid big money to rehabilitate him. Not a good situation from my immediate understanding.

Wasn't planning to offer that info up, but there it is.

There are lots of these programs (Green Pastures, Pure Life, Fresh Start, etc.) that seem to have very poor "success rates". Often the person seems successful but after a few years is reoffending again.

My personal opinion is that addicts should be put in work camps, and can work towards their freedom (using their work to repay and make restitution to every person they wronged and harmed). If they reoffend, they go back to the camp.

Green Pastures has an excellent success rate and is an extension of Phil Haven with a largely Amish board of directors. I know 5 people who received psychiatric treatment there and are doing very well.
I don't know anything about the other places mentioned and regarding "work camps", they don't work for the mentally ill. Do they work for addicts? I know a Horning facility makes their "inmates" dig fence post holes for every infraction they commit throughout the day. Maybe this works?

[Josh]

Many moons ago, I started this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4774&hilit=pure+life

Individual in question is now home with his family. To say that the situation went sideways is an understatement. The church paid big money to rehabilitate him. Not a good situation from my immediate understanding.

Wasn't planning to offer that info up, but there it is.

There are lots of these programs (Green Pastures, Pure Life, Fresh Start, etc.) that seem to have very poor "success rates". Often the person seems successful but after a few years is reoffending again.

My personal opinion is that addicts should be put in work camps, and can work towards their freedom (using their work to repay and make restitution to every person they wronged and harmed). If they reoffend, they go back to the camp.

Green Pastures has an excellent success rate and is an extension of Phil Haven with a largely Amish board of directors. I know 5 people who received psychiatric treatment there and are doing very well.
I don't know anything about the other places mentioned and regarding "work camps", they don't work for the mentally ill. Do they work for addicts? I know a Horning facility makes their "inmates" dig fence post holes for every infraction they commit throughout the day. Maybe this works?

My only experience with green pastures is nonaddicts who get treated there.

I think the only thing that changes an unrepentant addict is being forced to take responsibility for their actions, which basically means being forced to work, forced to repay all they have cost and stolen from other people, and physically restrained from having access to their addiction.

[temporal1]

My only experience with green pastures is nonaddicts who get treated there.

I think the only thing that changes an unrepentant addict is being forced to take responsibility for their actions, which basically means being forced to work, forced to repay all they have cost and stolen from other people, and physically restrained from having access to their addiction.

Near-death experiences can be wakeup calls, too.
God tested Gomer, pushed her to the brink, for the sole purpose of bringing her to Him. He prevailed.

Prayers for the Holy Spirit to intervene, to protect and guide words and actions. To touch souls and change hearts.

[flyingnorm]

There are lots of these programs (Green Pastures, Pure Life, Fresh Start, etc.) that seem to have very poor "success rates". Often the person seems successful but after a few years is reoffending again.

My personal opinion is that addicts should be put in work camps, and can work towards their freedom (using their work to repay and make restitution to every person they wronged and harmed). If they reoffend, they go back to the camp.

Green Pastures has an excellent success rate and is an extension of Phil Haven with a largely Amish board of directors. I know 5 people who received psychiatric treatment there and are doing very well.
I don't know anything about the other places mentioned and regarding "work camps", they don't work for the mentally ill. Do they work for addicts? I know a Horning facility makes their "inmates" dig fence post holes for every infraction they commit throughout the day. Maybe this works?

My only experience with green pastures is nonaddicts who get treated there.

I think the only thing that changes an unrepentant addict is being forced to take responsibility for their actions, which basically means being forced to work, forced to repay all they have cost and stolen from other people, and physically restrained from having access to their addiction.

Unrepentant addicts do not get changed through methods external methods of restraint. External methods of restraint are designed to protect the vulnerable around the addict. This is an important part of the care of the family.

How about an addict being shown and made aware through words and example that the Creator and Judge of all mankind made a way for him to no longer be an addict? That method has worked for countless lost souls stuck in addiction.

Is it the churches role to enforce morality like you say needs to happen or is it the churches role to offer hope to those that have given up on life?

[Josh]

Unrepentant addicts do not get changed through methods external methods of restraint. External methods of restraint are designed to protect the vulnerable around the addict. This is an important part of the care of the family.

I agree, but usually the family isn't too interested in hearing that and wants to hear a rescue plan of somehow how their errant son, father, etc. can be persuaded to get over his addiction.

How about an addict being shown and made aware through words and example that the Creator and Judge of all mankind made a way for him to no longer be an addict? That method has worked for countless lost souls stuck in addiction.

Until it doesn't.

Is it the churches role to enforce morality like you say needs to happen or is it the churches role to offer hope to those that have given up on life?

Well, let's say it happens to someone who is already born again, has made a confession of faith, is a baptised believer, a church member, and so forth. Then what?

[flyingnorm]

Unrepentant addicts do not get changed through methods external methods of restraint. External methods of restraint are designed to protect the vulnerable around the addict. This is an important part of the care of the family.

I agree, but usually the family isn't too interested in hearing that and wants to hear a rescue plan of somehow how their errant son, father, etc. can be persuaded to get over his addiction.

How about an addict being shown and made aware through words and example that the Creator and Judge of all mankind made a way for him to no longer be an addict? That method has worked for countless lost souls stuck in addiction.

Until it doesn't.

Is it the churches role to enforce morality like you say needs to happen or is it the churches role to offer hope to those that have given up on life?

Well, let's say it happens to someone who is already born again, has made a confession of faith, is a baptised believer, a church member, and so forth. Then what?

Not sure. My point of reference is people who are looking to get into a functional lifestyle and into a relationship with Christ. I don’t know how those who have been told that baptism, church membership, and a few other things are the answer will get born again other than through honest repentance from dead works and actual faith in the living Son of God. The changed lives I mentioned come almost entirely from a church background with a mix of animism.

One more thing. What exactly do you mean when you say “until it doesn’t”. When does Christ not save those who call on Him in faith?

[Josh]

Well, let's say it happens to someone who is already born again, has made a confession of faith, is a baptised believer, a church member, and so forth. Then what?

Not sure. My point of reference is people who are looking to get into a functional lifestyle and into a relationship with Christ. I don’t know how those who have been told that baptism, church membership, and a few other things are the answer will get born again other than through honest repentance from dead works and actual faith in the living Son of God. The changed lives I mentioned come almost entirely from a church background with a mix of animism.

One more thing. What exactly do you mean when you say “until it doesn’t”. When does Christ not save those who call on Him in faith?

Let me repeat myself: take someone who is someone who is already born again, has made a confession of faith, and is a baptised believer. (Surely you do not think being baptised is "dead works", and I said "confession of faith" and "is already born again", which means they had actual faith in the living Son of God.)

10 or 20 years later, this person has a serious addiction, maybe to drugs, maybe to alcohol, maybe to immorality.

What, exactly, do you propose for this person?