Absolutely agree (in thought and, sadly, experience), joshuabgood. Wonderfully written points.
Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
Another reason that Mennonite colleges likely don't have armed security is the tremendous liability insurance payments such a move would cause. Shippensburg as a state institution is likely insulated from this. It is the reason most hospitals don't use armed security.EdselB wrote:Yes I did read the article that undershepherd referenced.temporal1 wrote:EdselB, did you read the link undershepherd shared?
the content seems very similar to the helpful quotes you shared .. regarding existing reliance on and cooperation with community police.
Undershepherd wroteMy apologies. I wrongly assumed from the conclusions you had drawn previously that you hadn’t.Yes Edsel, I did read those before I posted. I also read what Briarwood has been doing and it is basically the same thing. EMU hires off duty officers to patrol the grounds etc. They refer any arrests to local Police Depts. Briarwood has been doing the same thing and is proposing that since they have difficulty finding enough off duty officers to handle the security that they be allowed to hire their own officers - but the officers would still refer arrests to local Police Depts.
I see two significant differences between what Briarwood is asking and the policies of the above mentioned Mennonite colleges, according to the CNN article which states:
First is the power to arrest and detain. As I read both the articles about Briarwood, it seems it is asking for an institutional based police force with authority to arrest and detain persons, who would then to be handed over to the local city police.The Alabama Senate voted Tuesday to allow Briarwood Presbyterian Church to hire fully deputized officers who would carry weapons and have the authority to make arrests.
None of the security or safety officials on the Mennonite campuses have the authority to arrest and detain. They have to do the same thing any citizen would have to do if they see a crime occurring, call the local police.
As to whether EMU hires off-duty policemen as Briarwood presently does, I suppose I could just go with your say so, but can you tell me how you know this? Even so, if there is a correlation between what Briarwood is presently doing and what EMU is presently doing—hiring off-duty police officers--the point of the requested legislation before the AL legislature is that Briarwood is asking for something more—“ fully deputized officers who would carry weapons and have the authority to make arrests.”
None of the security or safety officials on the Mennonite campuses are armed.
The lawyer for Briarwood, states:
It should be noted here that Briarwood legal case for the legislation is based on its operating educational institutions, not because it is a church. While AL and PA are different states, I will note that Shippensburg University has a University Police, whoThe language of the bill echoes the language of the law allowing colleges to have their own police departments, he said. Briarwood has two large campuses, with the church and Birmingham Theological Seminary off Acton Road at Interstate 459, and at the affiliated Briarwood Christian School on Cahaba Valley Road.
See under campus Safety Reports @ http://www.ship.edu/police/have full authority to enforce all state and federal laws, as well as any applicable university policies. The University Police Department is the police department of jurisdiction on the Shippensburg University campus. University police authority includes the power of arrest on campus property.
I can also state from personal observation that the Shippensburg University Police are armed. SU doesn’t have a jail, so if the SU police arrested any persons they would have to be sent to the county jail, similar to what Briarwood lawyer said, it would have to do if Briarwood's police arrested anyone.
Briarwood request seems more in accord with the powers that SU police have. Therefore I think to make the correlation that what Briarwood wants with the proposed legislation is similar to the current security and safety policies at the various Mennonite colleges is incorrect.It would not involve a jail or other facilities - basically an officer and an official car, he said. "I couldn't imagine it would be something more than that," Johnston said. "If there is an arrest on campus, the local jurisdiction would be called and they would come pick the person up."
J.M.
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
I'm curious Dan Z. What makes you hugely disappointed ?Dan Z wrote: However, do Mennonite institutions really have armed security guards on campus? Which ones? Honestly, I'd be hugely disappointed if this is the case.
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
Well, we actually believe in nonresistance?Sudsy wrote:I'm curious Dan Z. What makes you hugely disappointed ?Dan Z wrote: However, do Mennonite institutions really have armed security guards on campus? Which ones? Honestly, I'd be hugely disappointed if this is the case.
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
Guns in the hands of campus security....here's the result:Josh wrote:Well, we actually believe in nonresistance?Sudsy wrote:I'm curious Dan Z. What makes you hugely disappointed ?Dan Z wrote: However, do Mennonite institutions really have armed security guards on campus? Which ones? Honestly, I'd be hugely disappointed if this is the case.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... 57191a53c8
J.M.
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
The Roman Catholic university I used to work for had armed security, authorised by state law, and directly employed by the university. They also provided security to the on-campus parish and were present doing busy days when the place was packed or for weddings, etc. when a lot of off campus visitors would be present.
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
Yes...it would be a denial of a foundational Anabaptists principle - from our beginning we have rejected the use of the sword.Josh wrote:Well, we actually believe in nonresistance?Sudsy wrote:I'm curious Dan Z. What makes you hugely disappointed ?Dan Z wrote: However, do Mennonite institutions really have armed security guards on campus? Which ones? Honestly, I'd be hugely disappointed if this is the case.
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
I agree wholeheartedly - I am surprised at the amount of discussion this subject has generated.Dan Z wrote:Yes...it would be a denial of a foundational Anabaptists principle - from our beginning we have rejected the use of the sword.Josh wrote:Well, we actually believe in nonresistance?Sudsy wrote:
I'm curious Dan Z. What makes you hugely disappointed ?
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
Thanks Dan. I thought it was but I also have trouble with the idea that any believer should seek protection when the scriptures are filled with 'fear not' s.Dan Z wrote:Yes...it would be a denial of a foundational Anabaptists principle - from our beginning we have rejected the use of the sword.Josh wrote:Well, we actually believe in nonresistance?Sudsy wrote:
I'm curious Dan Z. What makes you hugely disappointed ?
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Re: Alabama Church asks permission to have Police Force
Kind of curious why we call the armed police. Are we not condemning those individuals to hell when we ask them to bring their weapons to be used on our behalf?
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