the best way to mitigate the inevitable damage would be to shield the vulnerable and let the virus burn through those to whom it posed little statistical risk. After some temporary pain, herd immunity would have been achieved in a matter of months and life would have returned to normal.
But would our overlords listen to logic, science, and common sense? Of course not. Instead, they went all-in on lockdowns, then mask mandates, and now leaky vaccines & vaccine mandates – none of which has worked nearly as advertised. The lockdowns ‘worked’ for a while, but they couldn’t be sustained. The mask mandates never did anything at all. And although they still are protecting people in the U.S. against severe illness and death, the vaccine program seems to be failing on a massive scale, going in a matter of months from “a path to normality” to “Your vaccine protects me but the vaccinated can still get and transmit Covid so we still have to wear a mask indefinitely, yet we still have to force everyone to get a vaccine so everyone is safe, or something.”
The problem with your proposal is that we have never once in history achieved herd immunity from a viral disease without the use of vaccines. Not once. Even the Spanish flu, which was a combination viral and bacterial infection was not eradicated through herd immunity. By 1919 it had mutated into less deadly forms more or less equivalent to the common flue and is still with us today.
Every other viral disease which we have beaten, from smallpox to polio, was accomplished with vaccines. And prior to modern medicine and vaccines, viral diseases just lingered endemic in the population causing continual and repeated outbreaks over decades and centuries.
And in any event, how do you actually shield the vulnerable and for how long would they need to be shielded? Years? Every time there is a new outbreak?
The Spanish flu is a perfect example. Respiratory viruses mutate into less virulent strains, and eventually become endemic with basically no harm to humans, or very minor harm. Leaky vaccines on the other hand create super-viruses.
There will not continue to be outbreaks. The vulnerable could mask or limit social interaction until they feel comfortable not doing so. Especially unhealthy people will be at a greater risk of dying, just like they have always been.
Healthy people do not need to be subjected to long term damage from overreaching COVID policies. Masking, lockdowns, and online education have all be bad for otherwise healthy people's mental health. That's a very significant cost.
haithabu wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:15 am
My son visited a doctor about his knee the other day and had a revealing conversation. He asked "I know some people who definitely won't vaccinate so they are taking horse Ivermectin. I'm afraid that it is unsafe. Is there anything preventing you from prescribing them human Ivermectin since that can do no harm and just might help?"
He was testing the rumour that Alberta doctors are not allowed to prescribe Ivermectin for anything other than scabies.
The doc looked uncomfortable and replied "There may be some other doctors who might but I won't because it doesn't work."
"Well, in that case is there anything you would recommend that they take for prophylaxis or early treatment to mitigate their risk?"
The doctor did not answer.
This is the story of the pandemic. Complete abdication of the medical field in terms of prevention and early treatment. How hard is it to say "Tell them to at least take Vitamin C and D?"
Complete abdication of the medical field in terms of prevention?
We have 3 effective vaccines here in the US and there are a variety of others in use around the world. In terms of preventing Covid I will take my chances with the vaccine over an endless daily or weekly regimen of Ivermectin any day. If people don’t want the actual prevention that is on them. Is it also the responsibility of doctors to come up with a polio preventative for those who refuse the polio vaccine? But if you want your Ivermectin it is easy enough to find. I have some Heartgard in my garage that I give to my dog for heart worms. It is just Ivermectin.
And in any event, the doctor in question was correct in not providing medical advice to patients who aren’t under his care. Doctors should not be providing medical advice to “I have a friend….” The correct answer is to tell the friend to seek medical care if he/she has medical issues. Not to provide 3rd hand medical advice to a patient you have never seen.
We don't need to abide by the CDC redefinition of a vaccine here. I'm going to call this out every time I see it from now on.
They're not effective vaccines by any previously accepted definition of an effective vaccine.
They are genetically based therapies that are somewhat effective initially, but with seriously waning efficacy as time goes on. They are orders of magnitude more dangerous than any other approved vaccines in existence today. The only thing the FDA approved will not be available until 2024, and will not be approved in pregnant women for another 5 years at least due to FDA rules.
Last edited by nett on Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
it is so interesting watching folks charnge their minds over the course of time.
i remember being told that vitamin c and vitamin d would not help me if i got covid.
They are correct if you don't take the proper dosage of vitamin c and vitamin D3. There is a difference in what amount you take before getting covid and what you would take to fight covid. Although it's best to get in foods, it is very difficult to get the proper amount that you need from foods because our food sources are so compromised these days.
To fight covid, one should take 2,000 to 4,000 mg a day if tolerated digestively.
D3 is the go to supplement too- however for proper absorption of vitamin D3, one should take fish oil or other healthy fat, omega-3 is a good one. But if you're taking high doses of vitamin D3 like you need to fight covid you need to add vitamin A and vitamin K2. To fight covid, one needs 5,000-10,000 IU but when you take that high dosage, you NEED the A & K2.
Really there is a lengthy list of supplements to help fight it. If you have a mild case, most people can get through without the lengthy list, it all depends on how badly you have covid symptoms in order to keep you from the hospital.
At this point I'm sure some are just rolling their eyes and saying just get the free shot.
It's also very important to not have inflammation in your body. Most Americans are inflamed because of their diets. Everyone should learn how to keep from having an inflamed body, what to avoid and what to intake because it will help keep you from getting sick. Interestingly enough when one really learns about nutrition and what to do to avoid viruses, so much of it is also applicable to preventing cancer. Of course there are things in our environment that can contribute to cancer, but that is why it's so important to know what nutrients to consume to prevent virus or cancer, they kind of go hand in hand. Antioxidants.
As a cashier, I totally get why America is so sick. Sugar is a number one cause of inflammation and the way I see people stalk their refrigerators/freezers and cupboards just grieves me, and if I have the opportunity to be close enough to share with people I know, I have found that they just don't want to give up what they don't want to give up
Taking adequate supplements has additional benefits beyond preventing Covid. In the 19 months that my wife and I have been taking C, D and Quercetin with zinc we have had no viral illness even though she was previously the first to come down with any cold or flu making the rounds. The exception is the recurring cold sores which she used to get like clockwork every 3-4 months; she recently had a mild short lived case with the change in season, her first in a year and a half.
My mother was the advocate in our family as we got older for supplements. She has lived now beyond the age of the rest of her family attributes it to taking the right supplements.
Interestingly enough I've always taken supplements but I'm really bad about doing it on a regular basis. Leaving the house in a hurry in the morning not taking the time always. Because during the pandemic I was exposed to approximately 1,000 customers face-to-face a week I was diligent about staying on top of my supplements every morning. (I couldn't even tell you the last time I caught anything going around it's been tons of years!)
I ended up getting covid the end of july. I had not heard of anyone around me or customers talking about covid for a couple of months. Unfortunately I return to my bad habit of not making the time every morning for my supplements Emily for work often without taking them all. Lo & behold I got Covid-19- not a bad case of it, my test was negative, but I didn't feel well enough to do anything anyways so I'm glad I stayed home.
Valerie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:00 pm
I ended up getting covid the end of july. I had not heard of anyone around me or customers talking about covid for a couple of months. Unfortunately I return to my bad habit of not making the time every morning for my supplements Emily for work often without taking them all. Lo & behold I got Covid-19- not a bad case of it, my test was negative, but I didn't feel well enough to do anything anyways so I'm glad I stayed home.
How do you know it was Covid if the test was negative?
Valerie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:00 pm
I ended up getting covid the end of july. I had not heard of anyone around me or customers talking about covid for a couple of months. Unfortunately I return to my bad habit of not making the time every morning for my supplements Emily for work often without taking them all. Lo & behold I got Covid-19- not a bad case of it, my test was negative, but I didn't feel well enough to do anything anyways so I'm glad I stayed home.
How do you know it was Covid if the test was negative?
She wrote this earlier.
Valerie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:20 am
The end of July I got covid and was down for 2 weeks. The PCR test said I was negative for covid. However I've never been down for 2 weeks of my life and one day and one day only I lost my sense of taste and smell.
Last week I had an antibody test which revealed I had had recent covid so the PCR test was inaccurate.
Valerie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:00 pm
I ended up getting covid the end of july. I had not heard of anyone around me or customers talking about covid for a couple of months. Unfortunately I return to my bad habit of not making the time every morning for my supplements Emily for work often without taking them all. Lo & behold I got Covid-19- not a bad case of it, my test was negative, but I didn't feel well enough to do anything anyways so I'm glad I stayed home.
How do you know it was Covid if the test was negative?
She wrote this earlier.
Valerie wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 8:20 am
The end of July I got covid and was down for 2 weeks. The PCR test said I was negative for covid. However I've never been down for 2 weeks of my life and one day and one day only I lost my sense of taste and smell.
Last week I had an antibody test which revealed I had had recent covid so the PCR test was inaccurate.
Oh, OK. I didn't read back over the thread. Thanks.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:46 amValerie is correct that a healthy nutritious diet including important micro-nutrients like zinc matters for recovering from an illness like a cold. The modern American diet should be avoided at all costs, and indeed is usually what makes people sick in the first place.
it is so interesting watching folks change their minds over the course of time.
i remember being told that vitamin c and vitamin d would not help me if i got covid.
Back in March of last year, some people were proposing all that me as needed to prevent covid was taking some vitamins. I felt this was an unwise course of action.
I still haven’t seen much evidence of efficacy of vitamin C and D to cure covid or prevent it, although FLCCC recommends it. There is a lot of evidence for zinc preventing cold symptoms. FLCCC recommends it too. I took lots of zinc last year from March - June, but I never ended up getting covid at all.
It certainly doesn’t hurt to take those vitamins, but until we had more information, I thought to unwise to rely on vitamins and zinc to prevent what seemed to be a deadly disease. Knowing what I know now, I would have worried about covid far less.
Josh wrote: ↑Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:46 amValerie is correct that a healthy nutritious diet including important micro-nutrients like zinc matters for recovering from an illness like a cold. The modern American diet should be avoided at all costs, and indeed is usually what makes people sick in the first place.
it is so interesting watching folks change their minds over the course of time.
i remember being told that vitamin c and vitamin d would not help me if i got covid.
Back in March of last year, some people were proposing all that me as needed to prevent covid was taking some vitamins. I felt this was an unwise course of action.
I still haven’t seen much evidence of efficacy of vitamin C and D to cure covid or prevent it, although FLCCC recommends it. There is a lot of evidence for zinc preventing cold symptoms. FLCCC recommends it too. I took lots of zinc last year from March - June, but I never ended up getting covid at all.
It certainly doesn’t hurt to take those vitamins, but until we had more information, I thought to unwise to rely on vitamins and zinc to prevent what seemed to be a deadly disease. Knowing what I know now, I would have worried about covid far less.
Correlating Vitamin D, and COVID outcomes could have been done trivially and without cost. It should have been part of standard COVID treatment to test for Vitamin D deficiency. This would have allowed a large scale study to determine if their was a correlation.
Interestingly, the government and Big Pharma haven’t focused on such research at all.
Today is your daily reminder that Pfizer’s vaccine is still experimental, you can’t get the FDA approved version, and safe, conventional vaccines are available in Brazil and Mexico but not in America.
This is surprising. New Jersey and New York are being edged out of the top states in terms of Covid deaths/million. There have been very few big shifts on the top end this chart in the last year and a half.
Mississippi is now the top state. New Jersey is now 2nd. Louisiana is in the #3 spot, and New York has fallen to #4. Another southern state, Alabama, is #5. I remember Florida being close to California in the low 20s in ranking. California, not showing on my screenshot below, is down to #33. That's a big change. My state of Pennsylvania is #15, I think that's a drop from where it was at one point.
