Natural (God given) immunity is superior

[nett]

I'm sorry what? Honestly, statements like this makes me doubt the intellectual honesty of you pro-vax people. Denying that natural immunity is more powerful than solely the vaccine is not a defensible position.

Here's some studies to chew on. Please don't pull a Wayne and selectively post parts of the studies to lie about what they're saying.

Here's how I came to my conclusion: I searched for literature reviews - articles written by people who have read the studies that are out there. I have referred to some of them here. I generally look for summaries of the research in medical journals and other reliable sources - I think that's at least "intellectually honest" and "defensible." You have not responded to the content of what I say at all, then you warn, in advance, that I might ignore your posts.

If you've found a summary of research that claims that vaccinated immunity alone is better than natural, please do share. I've not heard a single study that found that.

Suppose you drop the name-calling and calling everyone who disagrees with you dishonest. Suppose you actually take the time to look at what I wrote and respond to it. Suppose you even read the articles I point to and take them seriously. Then I might take the time to respond to these links. I'm willing to give this as much careful thought and respect as you are.

But so far, you are earning the right to be ignored.

The only thing you posted in this thread was a summary from the Holmes county health department showing that most of their cases are unvaccinated. i don't dispute that. What else did I fail to read?

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Where did I say I was going to be ignored?

What Wayne did was dishonest, and he told me ahead of time he was disengaging, after telling me I dishonored his Lord. If you disagree, please give me your detailed analysis of why he specifically omitted the critical part of the conclusion that would have proved my point.

Here's what I saw.

This article completely contradicts the "natural immunity is better" argument.

I will not engage in this argument anymore or waste my precious time citing the articles you posted without obviously reading them in a hand waving gesture to give you argument the credibility they don't deserve.

You dishonor my Lord whom you claim as your when you spread these lies. That's all I'll say.[/color]

I'm trying to be kind here, but you denigrated someone by asking where they got their math degree, when you yourself clearly don't know how to read basic statistical verbiage. The things you posted and bolded contradict your conclusions.

For example:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21262415v1
"Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections"
"Results: SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated..."

But you conveniently left out the rest of what they found

evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

Did you intentionally leave that out? If so, you're lying, and you need to repent. If you made a mistake that's fine, but I would appreciate you retracting your statement about me dishonoring the Lord with my statements. Nothing I have said so far is untrue.

Your silence is deafening Boot.

[Wayne in Maine]

It is simply beyond me to understand the logic behind those suggesting that I obtain "natural immunity" rather than obtain the vaccine. Think about it. "Natural Immunity" means getting the disease and risking death- why? What value is the to God and His Kingdom to risk death unnecessarily. How would you who advocate such measure be satisfied with my death in attempting to obtain "Natural Immunity"

[haithabu]

Natural immunity is not a strategy, it is an outcome.

[Wayne in Maine]

Natural immunity is not a strategy, it is an outcome.

Death is an outcome as well.

[Bootstrap]

Natural immunity is not a strategy, it is an outcome.

Death is an outcome as well.

I just listened to a podcast on this subject, it makes sense to me. According to the podcast, the main problem with natural immunity is that it's simply too risky, too many people are dying.

Here's what I understood from the podcast: It's not really a "versus". Vaccines do not prevent natural immunity. Natural immunity and vaccine immunity can complement each other - If you have been vaccinated, and you encounter a new strain, you can generally acquire natural immunity to that strain without much risk of hospitalization or death, at least for the strains we have encountered so far.

[Josh]

Most people I know have had covid by now, so they have natural immunity, which is far more effective than vaccines. None of them have gotten covid a second time, for example.

There’s simply no reason to take an experimental, ineffective vaccine, but if you want to, then go right ahead. I object to having it forced on those who already have natural immunity.

[Wade]

Natural immunity is not a strategy, it is an outcome.

Death is an outcome as well.

I just listened to a podcast on this subject, it makes sense to me. According to the podcast, the main problem with natural immunity is that it's simply too risky, too many people are dying.

Here's what I understood from the podcast: It's not really a "versus". Vaccines do not prevent natural immunity. Natural immunity and vaccine immunity can complement each other - If you have been vaccinated, and you encounter a new strain, you can generally acquire natural immunity to that strain without much risk of hospitalization or death, at least for the strains we have encountered so far.

Or because the vaccine doesn't stop a person from getting Covid it is a leaky vaccine which means the virus is allowed to exist inside a host long enough with antibodies that the virus is more encouraged to mutate, resulting in more resistant strains of COVID caused from these unethical vaccines eventually and potentially harming more people who have received the most boosters.

[haithabu]

Natural immunity is not a strategy, it is an outcome.

Death is an outcome as well.

I just listened to a podcast on this subject, it makes sense to me. According to the podcast, the main problem with natural immunity is that it's simply too risky, too many people are dying.

Here's what I understood from the podcast: It's not really a "versus". Vaccines do not prevent natural immunity. Natural immunity and vaccine immunity can complement each other - If you have been vaccinated, and you encounter a new strain, you can generally acquire natural immunity to that strain without much risk of hospitalization or death, at least for the strains we have encountered so far.

That’s kind of how I see it though maybe I take it a bit farther than you do.The purpose of a vaccine in this case is not to avoid getting the disease, is to survive it long enough to get natural immunity, that is if you are higher risk. Of course if you are lower risk that changes the equation and in many cases it becomes redundant. If you have a normal healthy immune system, once you have natural immunity it automatically updates itself every time you are re-exposed or reinfected. There is no need for further boosters or re-vaccination in most cases

So the need for a vaccine would be temporary for most people and the “need” would be determined purely in terms one’s personal risk tolerance and the therapeutics available.

If this all is true, and I believe it is, then the best strategy for a vaccinated person is to get infected as soon as possible before their protection wanes and then for them the pandemic is over.

[Szdfan]

Death is an outcome as well.

I just listened to a podcast on this subject, it makes sense to me. According to the podcast, the main problem with natural immunity is that it's simply too risky, too many people are dying.

Here's what I understood from the podcast: It's not really a "versus". Vaccines do not prevent natural immunity. Natural immunity and vaccine immunity can complement each other - If you have been vaccinated, and you encounter a new strain, you can generally acquire natural immunity to that strain without much risk of hospitalization or death, at least for the strains we have encountered so far.

Or because the vaccine doesn't stop a person from getting Covid it is a leaky vaccine which means the virus is allowed to exist inside a host long enough with antibodies that the virus is more encouraged to mutate, resulting in more resistant strains of COVID caused from these unethical vaccines eventually and potentially harming more people who have received the most boosters.

Wouldn't then a completely unvaccinated person be a greater risk to causing mutations and new strains to happen? Vaccines don't replace the immune system you already have. It's the same immune system at work here, but the vaccine trains or boosts your immune system's ability to defeat a virus.

[Ken]

Natural immunity is not a strategy, it is an outcome.

Death is an outcome as well.

I just listened to a podcast on this subject, it makes sense to me. According to the podcast, the main problem with natural immunity is that it's simply too risky, too many people are dying.

Here's what I understood from the podcast: It's not really a "versus". Vaccines do not prevent natural immunity. Natural immunity and vaccine immunity can complement each other - If you have been vaccinated, and you encounter a new strain, you can generally acquire natural immunity to that strain without much risk of hospitalization or death, at least for the strains we have encountered so far.

Natural immunity achieved by exposing every American to Covid would result in the deaths of about 6 million Americans under the current Covid case fatality rate of 1.8%. That is about 10x as many people as have already died in this country due to Covid.

One a world-wide basis the Covid case fatality rate is about 2.2% and if the entire world population of 7.9 billion is exposed to achieve world-wide natural immunity the death toll would be about 174 million, which would put Covid up there with the Black Death of the mid 1300s as the worst pandemic in human history.

That is the death toll people are advocating when they call for natural immunity instead of vaccines.

We can do better.