Natural (God given) immunity is superior

[Ken]

It wasn't you implying it was a lack of education that causes the Amish to make the decisions they do about medicine and vaccines
Are you familiar with America's Frontline Doctors?

America's Front Line Doctors? You mean this group? They sound pretty fraudulent: https://time.com/6092368/americas-front ... formation/ or https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... ne-doctors

By the way, I think it was Wayne in Maine who talked about the lack of education in Amish-country leading folks to be more susceptible to quackery.

[Ken]

If a nurse chooses not to get vaccinated, and then carries a Covid infection into a hospital ward where vulnerable immuno-compromised patients are being treated. Or even just a retirement home with elderly patients that have weak immune systems. And people die as a result. Should that nurse be prosecuted for negligent manslaughter?

This is not a far-fetched scenario. Recently my wife who is a physician had a telemedicine consult with an unvaccinated nursing home nurse who was one of her patients. She was unvaccinated and claiming a religious exemption because my wife had previously refused to give her a medical exemption. The nurse was reporting vague mild symptoms that potentially could have been Covid but also could have been an ordinary cold or flu. My wife instructed her that under no circumstances should she go to to work. That she needed to get Covid tested and self-isolate until cleared of the disease. The nurse ignored her instructions and went to work anyway. Several days later her symptoms worsened and she tested positive for Covid. The outbreak she caused at the nursing home, which was contact-traced directly back to her, resulted in the deaths of 3 residents and the hospitalization of several more.

Afterwards this same nurse came to my wife in tears and remorse, begging her to edit her medical record to remove the note stating that my wife had advised her that she was to self-isolate and not return to work until cleared of Covid. My wife refused and the nurse was subsequently fired for failing to adhere to hospital Covid protocol.

If you are a rural hermit then your personal choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate affects no one else. If you are a health-care professional then it has potentially life-threatening consequences for others in your care.

Ken,

That's an awful lot of personally identifying information you've shared from your wife. Does she regularly violate HIPAA this much with you, and then look the other way when you go and share it on a public Internet forum?

You seem almost gleeful that someone who has a religious objection to vaccination ended up "killing 3 people" (which is pure speculation on your part - can you point us to any evidence so that we know your story is true?) along with describing her "tears and remorse" and then gleefully talking about her getting fired from her job.

I don't know any more details. There are literally dozens and dozens of nursing homes in this region that have had deadly outbreaks of Covid including a Menno-affiliated one that had 18 Covid deaths and is embroiled in lawsuits" https://www.oregonlive.com/coronavirus/ ... laims.html

[nett]

Is natural immunity superior? I assume that means medically superior. So far, I'm not convinced that it is.

I'm sorry what? Honestly, statements like this makes me doubt the intellectual honesty of you pro-vax people. Denying that natural immunity is more powerful than solely the vaccine is not a defensible position.

Here's some studies to chew on. Please don't pull a Wayne and selectively post parts of the studies to lie about what they're saying.

Here's how I came to my conclusion: I searched for literature reviews - articles written by people who have read the studies that are out there. I have referred to some of them here. I generally look for summaries of the research in medical journals and other reliable sources - I think that's at least "intellectually honest" and "defensible." You have not responded to the content of what I say at all, then you warn, in advance, that I might ignore your posts.

If you've found a summary of research that claims that vaccinated immunity alone is better than natural, please do share. I've not heard a single study that found that.

Suppose you drop the name-calling and calling everyone who disagrees with you dishonest. Suppose you actually take the time to look at what I wrote and respond to it. Suppose you even read the articles I point to and take them seriously. Then I might take the time to respond to these links. I'm willing to give this as much careful thought and respect as you are.

But so far, you are earning the right to be ignored.

The only thing you posted in this thread was a summary from the Holmes county health department showing that most of their cases are unvaccinated. i don't dispute that. What else did I fail to read?

I'm not quite sure what you're talking about. Where did I say I was going to be ignored?

What Wayne did was dishonest, and he told me ahead of time he was disengaging, after telling me I dishonored his Lord. If you disagree, please give me your detailed analysis of why he specifically omitted the critical part of the conclusion that would have proved my point.

Here's what I saw.

This article completely contradicts the "natural immunity is better" argument.

I will not engage in this argument anymore or waste my precious time citing the articles you posted without obviously reading them in a hand waving gesture to give you argument the credibility they don't deserve.

You dishonor my Lord whom you claim as your when you spread these lies. That's all I'll say.[/color]

I'm trying to be kind here, but you denigrated someone by asking where they got their math degree, when you yourself clearly don't know how to read basic statistical verbiage. The things you posted and bolded contradict your conclusions.

For example:

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21262415v1
"Comparing SARS-CoV-2 natural immunity to vaccine-induced immunity: reinfections versus breakthrough infections"
"Results: SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees had a 13.06-fold (95% CI, 8.08 to 21.11) increased risk for breakthrough infection with the Delta variant compared to those previously infected, when the first event (infection or vaccination) occurred during January and February of 2021. The increased risk was significant (P<0.001) for symptomatic disease as well. When allowing the infection to occur at any time before vaccination (from March 2020 to February 2021), evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated..."

But you conveniently left out the rest of what they found

evidence of waning natural immunity was demonstrated, though SARS-CoV-2 naïve vaccinees had a 5.96-fold (95% CI, 4.85 to 7.33) increased risk for breakthrough infection and a 7.13-fold (95% CI, 5.51 to 9.21) increased risk for symptomatic disease. SARS-CoV-2-naïve vaccinees were also at a greater risk for COVID-19-related-hospitalizations compared to those that were previously infected.

Did you intentionally leave that out? If so, you're lying, and you need to repent. If you made a mistake that's fine, but I would appreciate you retracting your statement about me dishonoring the Lord with my statements. Nothing I have said so far is untrue.

[Valerie]

It wasn't you implying it was a lack of education that causes the Amish to make the decisions they do about medicine and vaccines
Are you familiar with America's Frontline Doctors?

America's Front Line Doctors? You mean this group? They sound pretty fraudulent: https://time.com/6092368/americas-front ... formation/ or https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... ne-doctors

By the way, I think it was Wayne in Maine who talked about the lack of education in Amish-country leading folks to be more susceptible to quackery.

They've been successful at treating people and keeping them from hospitalizations. One of them is a doctor and a lawyer, so she certainly is educated and got her patient successfully through the covid experience. That is why many are turning to them for help.

Posted from a friend:

"Asymptomatic spread is fraudulent fake news. What a lie so many people have bought into. It has closed down economies, caused people to lose their businesses, lead people into loneliness and depression and isolation. What a horrific tragedy and a rip off. Seek the truth on these issues and God help us to not fall for any more of these lies!!!

There are plenty of ethical doctors and scientists that agree. There is definitely two sides to this topic. May we all prayerfully hear both sides and ask God to guide us in truth, with discernment and understanding and wisdom from above!

My wife and I would probably be dead right now if we didn’t choose to take note of all the therapeutics that actually work but have been squashed by big tech, big Pharma and the elite.

Many people are waking up to the whole issue of Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection. If they would have admitted that other therapeutics work to help people get through this terrible virus, they would not have been able to legally do the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection.
If they admitted that those things work now, then they would have to admit that there EUA was bogus from the beginning.

All this is happening because of lack of love and the love of money which is a root of all kinds of evil. How many people could have survived this virus under the care of an ethical doctor at home who has not bought into all this BS? The things that actually help people have been censored and squashed and kept away from many people, and instead they are put in the hospital and given treatment that doesn’t actually help them. Essential vitamins are looked down on and therapeutics that have helped thousands are censored and squashed. So many people are dying because of this deceptive, unloving,  uncompassionate, money loving, power loving,  ignorant ridiculousness!!!!!!!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us and help us in all things!!!"

Many agree with him- that ARE educated & hold doctorate degrees.
To many, its a matter of praying for discernment & then seeing a global agenda that most will deny

[Valerie]

Do most people even understand their immune system?
What makes a heathy one, what interferes, how to improve it? Even allergies are tied into the immune system-. -. This is an area, speaking of education, I truly wish people would educate themselves on.

[Ken]

It wasn't you implying it was a lack of education that causes the Amish to make the decisions they do about medicine and vaccines
Are you familiar with America's Frontline Doctors?

America's Front Line Doctors? You mean this group? They sound pretty fraudulent: https://time.com/6092368/americas-front ... formation/ or https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... ne-doctors

By the way, I think it was Wayne in Maine who talked about the lack of education in Amish-country leading folks to be more susceptible to quackery.

They've been successful at treating people and keeping them from hospitalizations. One of them is a doctor and a lawyer, so she certainly is educated and got her patient successfully through the covid experience. That is why many are turning to them for help.

Posted from a friend:

"Asymptomatic spread is fraudulent fake news. What a lie so many people have bought into. It has closed down economies, caused people to lose their businesses, lead people into loneliness and depression and isolation. What a horrific tragedy and a rip off. Seek the truth on these issues and God help us to not fall for any more of these lies!!!

There are plenty of ethical doctors and scientists that agree. There is definitely two sides to this topic. May we all prayerfully hear both sides and ask God to guide us in truth, with discernment and understanding and wisdom from above!

My wife and I would probably be dead right now if we didn’t choose to take note of all the therapeutics that actually work but have been squashed by big tech, big Pharma and the elite.

Many people are waking up to the whole issue of Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection. If they would have admitted that other therapeutics work to help people get through this terrible virus, they would not have been able to legally do the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection.
If they admitted that those things work now, then they would have to admit that there EUA was bogus from the beginning.

All this is happening because of lack of love and the love of money which is a root of all kinds of evil. How many people could have survived this virus under the care of an ethical doctor at home who has not bought into all this BS? The things that actually help people have been censored and squashed and kept away from many people, and instead they are put in the hospital and given treatment that doesn’t actually help them. Essential vitamins are looked down on and therapeutics that have helped thousands are censored and squashed. So many people are dying because of this deceptive, unloving,  uncompassionate, money loving, power loving,  ignorant ridiculousness!!!!!!!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us and help us in all things!!!"

Many agree with him- that ARE educated & hold doctorate degrees.
To many, its a matter of praying for discernment & then seeing a global agenda that most will deny

You do realize that Ivermectin was created and is still manufactured by Merck (or under license to Merck) which is the 4th largest Pharma company on the planet?

Or were you not talking about Ivermectin?

[Valerie]

The thymus is an organ that is critically important to the immune system which serves as the body's defense mechanism providing surveillance and protection against diverse pathogens, tumors, antigens and mediators of tissue damage.

As I shared with Neto- my husband started taking a supplement called Thymex by Standard Process which we obtained from a chiropractor, when we read about its benefits.

Neil has a suppressed immune system because of his kidney and pancreas transplant and is transplant medications. I have known him for 32 years and without exception he got sick with either a cold or sinus infections due to seasonal allergies every single year several times a year. The whole pattern of going to the doctor getting antibiotic etc was repeated over and over. Thymex is called that, because of how it helps your thymus gland (see above explanation of your thymus gland). It will be 4 years this coming Thanksgiving weekend since my husband started taking it and he has not caught anything going around nor dealt with seasonal allergies since he began taking it. It's been like a miracle and he is told countless people how it's changed his life no more antibiotics no more 3 weeks of coughing etc. Of course on mental net this would be considered quackery but hey a man with experience/testimony is not at the mercy of a man with an argument. It has literally changed my husband's health.

My mom started taking it also because of her asthma. She said she was able to not have to use her inhaler anymore and she no longer deals with wheezing

[nett]

America's Front Line Doctors? You mean this group? They sound pretty fraudulent: https://time.com/6092368/americas-front ... formation/ or https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... ne-doctors

By the way, I think it was Wayne in Maine who talked about the lack of education in Amish-country leading folks to be more susceptible to quackery.

They've been successful at treating people and keeping them from hospitalizations. One of them is a doctor and a lawyer, so she certainly is educated and got her patient successfully through the covid experience. That is why many are turning to them for help.

Posted from a friend:

"Asymptomatic spread is fraudulent fake news. What a lie so many people have bought into. It has closed down economies, caused people to lose their businesses, lead people into loneliness and depression and isolation. What a horrific tragedy and a rip off. Seek the truth on these issues and God help us to not fall for any more of these lies!!!

There are plenty of ethical doctors and scientists that agree. There is definitely two sides to this topic. May we all prayerfully hear both sides and ask God to guide us in truth, with discernment and understanding and wisdom from above!

My wife and I would probably be dead right now if we didn’t choose to take note of all the therapeutics that actually work but have been squashed by big tech, big Pharma and the elite.

Many people are waking up to the whole issue of Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection. If they would have admitted that other therapeutics work to help people get through this terrible virus, they would not have been able to legally do the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection.
If they admitted that those things work now, then they would have to admit that there EUA was bogus from the beginning.

All this is happening because of lack of love and the love of money which is a root of all kinds of evil. How many people could have survived this virus under the care of an ethical doctor at home who has not bought into all this BS? The things that actually help people have been censored and squashed and kept away from many people, and instead they are put in the hospital and given treatment that doesn’t actually help them. Essential vitamins are looked down on and therapeutics that have helped thousands are censored and squashed. So many people are dying because of this deceptive, unloving,  uncompassionate, money loving, power loving,  ignorant ridiculousness!!!!!!!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us and help us in all things!!!"

Many agree with him- that ARE educated & hold doctorate degrees.
To many, its a matter of praying for discernment & then seeing a global agenda that most will deny

You do realize that Ivermectin was created and is still manufactured by Merck (or under license to Merck) which is the 4th largest Pharma company on the planet?

Or were you not talking about Ivermectin?

Pretty sure Ivermectin is off-patent now.

[mennonitemom1]

It wasn't you implying it was a lack of education that causes the Amish to make the decisions they do about medicine and vaccines
Are you familiar with America's Frontline Doctors?

America's Front Line Doctors? You mean this group? They sound pretty fraudulent: https://time.com/6092368/americas-front ... formation/ or https://www.mcgill.ca/oss/article/covid ... ne-doctors

By the way, I think it was Wayne in Maine who talked about the lack of education in Amish-country leading folks to be more susceptible to quackery.

They've been successful at treating people and keeping them from hospitalizations. One of them is a doctor and a lawyer, so she certainly is educated and got her patient successfully through the covid experience. That is why many are turning to them for help.

Posted from a friend:

"Asymptomatic spread is fraudulent fake news. What a lie so many people have bought into. It has closed down economies, caused people to lose their businesses, lead people into loneliness and depression and isolation. What a horrific tragedy and a rip off. Seek the truth on these issues and God help us to not fall for any more of these lies!!!

There are plenty of ethical doctors and scientists that agree. There is definitely two sides to this topic. May we all prayerfully hear both sides and ask God to guide us in truth, with discernment and understanding and wisdom from above!

My wife and I would probably be dead right now if we didn’t choose to take note of all the therapeutics that actually work but have been squashed by big tech, big Pharma and the elite.

Many people are waking up to the whole issue of Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection. If they would have admitted that other therapeutics work to help people get through this terrible virus, they would not have been able to legally do the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection.
If they admitted that those things work now, then they would have to admit that there EUA was bogus from the beginning.

All this is happening because of lack of love and the love of money which is a root of all kinds of evil. How many people could have survived this virus under the care of an ethical doctor at home who has not bought into all this BS? The things that actually help people have been censored and squashed and kept away from many people, and instead they are put in the hospital and given treatment that doesn’t actually help them. Essential vitamins are looked down on and therapeutics that have helped thousands are censored and squashed. So many people are dying because of this deceptive, unloving,  uncompassionate, money loving, power loving,  ignorant ridiculousness!!!!!!!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us and help us in all things!!!"

Many agree with him- that ARE educated & hold doctorate degrees.
To many, its a matter of praying for discernment & then seeing a global agenda that most will deny

I love your post…. Very very good, I totally agree…

[Ken]

They've been successful at treating people and keeping them from hospitalizations. One of them is a doctor and a lawyer, so she certainly is educated and got her patient successfully through the covid experience. That is why many are turning to them for help.

Posted from a friend:

"Asymptomatic spread is fraudulent fake news. What a lie so many people have bought into. It has closed down economies, caused people to lose their businesses, lead people into loneliness and depression and isolation. What a horrific tragedy and a rip off. Seek the truth on these issues and God help us to not fall for any more of these lies!!!

There are plenty of ethical doctors and scientists that agree. There is definitely two sides to this topic. May we all prayerfully hear both sides and ask God to guide us in truth, with discernment and understanding and wisdom from above!

My wife and I would probably be dead right now if we didn’t choose to take note of all the therapeutics that actually work but have been squashed by big tech, big Pharma and the elite.

Many people are waking up to the whole issue of Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection. If they would have admitted that other therapeutics work to help people get through this terrible virus, they would not have been able to legally do the Emergency Use Authorization (EUA) of this injection.
If they admitted that those things work now, then they would have to admit that there EUA was bogus from the beginning.

All this is happening because of lack of love and the love of money which is a root of all kinds of evil. How many people could have survived this virus under the care of an ethical doctor at home who has not bought into all this BS? The things that actually help people have been censored and squashed and kept away from many people, and instead they are put in the hospital and given treatment that doesn’t actually help them. Essential vitamins are looked down on and therapeutics that have helped thousands are censored and squashed. So many people are dying because of this deceptive, unloving,  uncompassionate, money loving, power loving,  ignorant ridiculousness!!!!!!!
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on us and help us in all things!!!"

Many agree with him- that ARE educated & hold doctorate degrees.
To many, its a matter of praying for discernment & then seeing a global agenda that most will deny

You do realize that Ivermectin was created and is still manufactured by Merck (or under license to Merck) which is the 4th largest Pharma company on the planet?

Or were you not talking about Ivermectin?

Pretty sure Ivermectin is off-patent now.

Yes, but I think Merck is still the main manufacturer, especially in the US and Canada.