Natural (God given) immunity is superior

[nett]

And how does God expose the infidelity? Does a scarlet letter appear on the front of the woman's dress in the spirit of Nathaniel Hawthorne? Or does he choose some other method?

It is believed that the passage refers to a stillbirth or a miscarriage. What's your point? God is sovereign, we are not.

Chemical-induced miscarriage. AKA Chemical Abortion.

There is no way to read this passage without concluding that God and/or the ancient Hebrew society valued judgement against women's infidelity as more important than the life of the unborn. If life of the unborn fetus was sacred then there are an infinite number of other ways that the infidelity of the woman could be demonstrated that didn't involve the killing of the unborn child.

You asked for an exception in the Bible that allows one to "murder" children in the womb before 6 weeks. I provided a specific example of this happening as per your request. In this example, God speaking to Moses endorses the chemical abortion of the fetuses of women who were unfaithful to their husbands. I see no other way to read this passage. And since the New Testament is completely silent on the topic of abortion, all we have are Old Testament texts.

This is pretty simple. God is judge jury and executioner. We are not. I don't subscribe to the potion an abortifacient, nor do most scholars. An entirely natural explanation is that the anxiety of knowing her guilt, and believing she would be judge induced a miscarriage.

[nett]

hey Boot and Ken, experts from the Cleveland Clinic disagree with you.

Conclusions: Individuals who have had SARS-CoV-2 infection are unlikely to benefit from COVID-19 vaccination, and vaccines can be safely prioritized to those who have not been infected before.

The statistical chances of reinfection are so infinitesimally small, vaccine side effects are a higher risk than COVID. If you've been previously infected by COVID, worrying about reinfection is bordering on hypochondria.

[nett]

And just like the blood of Abel "cries out from the ground" (Genesis 4:10) - then where does the tissue of this dead child cry from - after it has been injected into our bodies? It cries out to God from inside our physical bodies. It makes us stink in the eyes of our God. That is why I won't do it. And that could be the reason they put this abomination in these vaccines - to make us unholy.

I won't condemn anyone, and you are welcome to disagree.

But if you are facing a forced vaccination to keep your job, then this is a very powerful argument for a religious exemption.

If a nurse chooses not to get vaccinated, and then carries a Covid infection into a hospital ward where vulnerable immuno-compromised patients are being treated. Or even just a retirement home with elderly patients that have weak immune systems. And people die as a result. Should that nurse be prosecuted for negligent manslaughter?

This is not a far-fetched scenario. Recently my wife who is a physician had a telemedicine consult with an unvaccinated nursing home nurse who was one of her patients. She was unvaccinated and claiming a religious exemption because my wife had previously refused to give her a medical exemption. The nurse was reporting vague mild symptoms that potentially could have been Covid but also could have been an ordinary cold or flu. My wife instructed her that under no circumstances should she go to to work. That she needed to get Covid tested and self-isolate until cleared of the disease. The nurse ignored her instructions and went to work anyway. Several days later her symptoms worsened and she tested positive for Covid. The outbreak she caused at the nursing home, which was contact-traced directly back to her, resulted in the deaths of 3 residents and the hospitalization of several more.

Afterwards this same nurse came to my wife in tears and remorse, begging her to edit her medical record to remove the note stating that my wife had advised her that she was to self-isolate and not return to work until cleared of Covid. My wife refused and the nurse was subsequently fired for failing to adhere to hospital Covid protocol.

If you are a rural hermit then your personal choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate affects no one else. If you are a health-care professional then it has potentially life-threatening consequences for others in your care.

Did everyone clap after she was fired?

[nett]

Is natural immunity superior? I assume that means medically superior. So far, I'm not convinced that it is.

I'm sorry what? Honestly, statements like this makes me doubt the intellectual honesty of you pro-vax people. Denying that natural immunity is more powerful than solely the vaccine is not a defensible position.

Here's some studies to chew on. Please don't pull a Wayne and selectively post parts of the studies to lie about what they're saying.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21258176v2
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2112981
https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101 ... 21262415v1
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2103825
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2032195
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-res ... y-covid-19

[Josh]

If a nurse chooses not to get vaccinated, and then carries a Covid infection into a hospital ward where vulnerable immuno-compromised patients are being treated. Or even just a retirement home with elderly patients that have weak immune systems. And people die as a result. Should that nurse be prosecuted for negligent manslaughter?

This is not a far-fetched scenario. Recently my wife who is a physician had a telemedicine consult with an unvaccinated nursing home nurse who was one of her patients. She was unvaccinated and claiming a religious exemption because my wife had previously refused to give her a medical exemption. The nurse was reporting vague mild symptoms that potentially could have been Covid but also could have been an ordinary cold or flu. My wife instructed her that under no circumstances should she go to to work. That she needed to get Covid tested and self-isolate until cleared of the disease. The nurse ignored her instructions and went to work anyway. Several days later her symptoms worsened and she tested positive for Covid. The outbreak she caused at the nursing home, which was contact-traced directly back to her, resulted in the deaths of 3 residents and the hospitalization of several more.

Afterwards this same nurse came to my wife in tears and remorse, begging her to edit her medical record to remove the note stating that my wife had advised her that she was to self-isolate and not return to work until cleared of Covid. My wife refused and the nurse was subsequently fired for failing to adhere to hospital Covid protocol.

If you are a rural hermit then your personal choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate affects no one else. If you are a health-care professional then it has potentially life-threatening consequences for others in your care.

Ken,

That's an awful lot of personally identifying information you've shared from your wife. Does she regularly violate HIPAA this much with you, and then look the other way when you go and share it on a public Internet forum?

You seem almost gleeful that someone who has a religious objection to vaccination ended up "killing 3 people" (which is pure speculation on your part - can you point us to any evidence so that we know your story is true?) along with describing her "tears and remorse" and then gleefully talking about her getting fired from her job.

[Bootstrap]

Is natural immunity superior? I assume that means medically superior. So far, I'm not convinced that it is.

I'm sorry what? Honestly, statements like this makes me doubt the intellectual honesty of you pro-vax people. Denying that natural immunity is more powerful than solely the vaccine is not a defensible position.

Here's some studies to chew on. Please don't pull a Wayne and selectively post parts of the studies to lie about what they're saying.

Here's how I came to my conclusion: I searched for literature reviews - articles written by people who have read the studies that are out there. I have referred to some of them here. I generally look for summaries of the research in medical journals and other reliable sources - I think that's at least "intellectually honest" and "defensible." You have not responded to the content of what I say at all, then you warn, in advance, that I might ignore your posts.

Suppose you drop the name-calling and calling everyone who disagrees with you dishonest. Suppose you actually take the time to look at what I wrote and respond to it. Suppose you even read the articles I point to and take them seriously. Then I might take the time to respond to these links. I'm willing to give this as much careful thought and respect as you are.

But so far, you are earning the right to be ignored.

[Valerie]

Well not the Anabaptists in Holmes County- they have a 16% vaccination rate according to the paper I picked up yesterday. We we're at the Haiti benefit auction Friday and Saturday, Brad gets a couple thousand and a Baptist were not one of them wearing a mask or worrying about social distancing.

Let's take a look at the statistics for Holmes County. It sure looks like vaccinated people are doing better than unvaccinated people there.

2,937 Covid-19 cases. 2,874 of these were unvaccinated, 63 were vaccinated.
297 hospitalized Covid-19 patients. 289 were unvaccinated, 8 vaccinated.
103 deaths. 103 were unvaccinated, 0 vaccinated.

It still should be a personal choice. Every single Amish person that I've had a discussion with that went through covid said they are still glad they did not take the vaccine and they won't take the vaccine.

I think it's a very poor taste to imply it is because they are not educated down there that they make these kind of decisions. Especially when actual physicians are discouraging the use of the vaccine. So apparently education has nothing to do with it, I don't many people that have college degrees that are against taking the vaccine so it's just silly to imply it's a lack of education

[Bootstrap]

It still should be a personal choice.

And it is. I think it's good to have accurate information when making this choice.

I think it's a very poor taste to imply it is because they are not educated down there that they make these kind of decisions.

I don't think I have said anything like that, have I? I think I just gave the Covid-19 statistics for the county.

Especially when actual physicians are discouraging the use of the vaccine.

When I look at medical sources and medical organizations, they seem to consistently recommend the vaccine. And 96% of practicing physicians are themselves vaccinated.

The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a new survey among practicing physicians that shows more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant difference in vaccination rates across regions. Of the physicians who are not yet vaccinated, an additional 45 percent do plan to get vaccinated.

[Valerie]

It still should be a personal choice.

And it is. I think it's good to have accurate information when making this choice.

I think it's a very poor taste to imply it is because they are not educated down there that they make these kind of decisions.

I don't think I have said anything like that, have I? I think I just gave the Covid-19 statistics for the county.

Especially when actual physicians are discouraging the use of the vaccine.

When I look at medical sources and medical organizations, they seem to consistently recommend the vaccine. And 96% of practicing physicians are themselves vaccinated.

The American Medical Association (AMA) today released a new survey among practicing physicians that shows more than 96 percent of surveyed U.S. physicians have been fully vaccinated for COVID-19, with no significant difference in vaccination rates across regions. Of the physicians who are not yet vaccinated, an additional 45 percent do plan to get vaccinated.

It wasn't you implying it was a lack of education that causes the Amish to make the decisions they do about medicine and vaccines
Are you familiar with America's Frontline Doctors?

[Ken]

And just like the blood of Abel "cries out from the ground" (Genesis 4:10) - then where does the tissue of this dead child cry from - after it has been injected into our bodies? It cries out to God from inside our physical bodies. It makes us stink in the eyes of our God. That is why I won't do it. And that could be the reason they put this abomination in these vaccines - to make us unholy.

I won't condemn anyone, and you are welcome to disagree.

But if you are facing a forced vaccination to keep your job, then this is a very powerful argument for a religious exemption.

If a nurse chooses not to get vaccinated, and then carries a Covid infection into a hospital ward where vulnerable immuno-compromised patients are being treated. Or even just a retirement home with elderly patients that have weak immune systems. And people die as a result. Should that nurse be prosecuted for negligent manslaughter?

This is not a far-fetched scenario. Recently my wife who is a physician had a telemedicine consult with an unvaccinated nursing home nurse who was one of her patients. She was unvaccinated and claiming a religious exemption because my wife had previously refused to give her a medical exemption. The nurse was reporting vague mild symptoms that potentially could have been Covid but also could have been an ordinary cold or flu. My wife instructed her that under no circumstances should she go to to work. That she needed to get Covid tested and self-isolate until cleared of the disease. The nurse ignored her instructions and went to work anyway. Several days later her symptoms worsened and she tested positive for Covid. The outbreak she caused at the nursing home, which was contact-traced directly back to her, resulted in the deaths of 3 residents and the hospitalization of several more.

Afterwards this same nurse came to my wife in tears and remorse, begging her to edit her medical record to remove the note stating that my wife had advised her that she was to self-isolate and not return to work until cleared of Covid. My wife refused and the nurse was subsequently fired for failing to adhere to hospital Covid protocol.

If you are a rural hermit then your personal choice to vaccinate or not vaccinate affects no one else. If you are a health-care professional then it has potentially life-threatening consequences for others in your care.

Did everyone clap after she was fired?

No. In real life most people don't ever even find out about this sort of thing due to HIPAA and HR employee privacy policies. Unless the employee makes a public stink about it. As I heard the story from my wife, she was actually fired for failing to follow mandatory Covid procedures, not for the failure to vaccinate. Every case is different. But I have no idea who any of these people are. I only hear the general outlines, not the specifics who who it was.