Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Things that are not part of politics happening presently and how we approach or address it as Anabaptists.

POLL QUESTION: The fate of “non-left” university professors?

 
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temporal1
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Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by temporal1 »

“UVM Professor's Viral Video Prompts Calls for His Resignation”
https://www.sevendaysvt.com/OffMessage/ ... esignation

1. Racism and the secular religion at the University of Vermont / 9 min.


2. Secular Religion at UVM / An answer and a question / 6 min.


:arrow: Found in “comments,” second video:
altCensored Limited State Videos
this channel is archived at altCensored (.com) in case of censorship, and will show up in 24 hrs at altCensored .com/channel. #FreeSpeech (videos appear at altCensored .com if removed from YouTube)


.. i do not know this professor, or these sources (read/view with care).
i have fond memories of living in Vermont as a young one, working as staff in the College of Ag.
UVM is an expensive state school with lots of NYC and other elite East Coast student population.
Vermont’s local population tends to be rural and down to earth. The small state is a beloved playground for the wealthy.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Ken
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Re: Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by Ken »

How about adding #7 to your poll: This is a ridiculous non-issue.

He's a tenured professor who said something that HE KNEW would be controversial on YouTube and some students got upset. So what? That goes with the territory. This whole hubbub about professors being censored is actually a trivial non-issue that has been blown completely out of proportion.

He hasn't been fired or silenced. I'm not sure why any of the rest of us should care one way or another what he posts to YouTube or how a few student react. It's not news. In terms of a broader pattern, it is actually liberal professors who get fired more often for their speech than conservative professors. And, in any event, there are over 4,000 colleges and universities in this country employing hundreds of thousands of professors. The number of professors who are fired or disciplined for "incorrect" speech is vanishingly small. You are more likely to be struck by lightning than fired for political speech on campus.
https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics ... georgetown

Jeffrey Sachs, a political scientist at Canada’s Acadia University, put together a database of all incidents where a professor was dismissed for political speech in the United States between 2015 and 2017. Sachs’s results, published by the left-libertarian Niskanen Center, actually found that left-wing professors were more frequently dismissed for their speech than conservative ones:

The pro-free speech Foundation for Individual Rights in Education keeps a database of speaker disinvitations from campuses. It finds only a handful of disinvitations — somewhere between 20 and 42 — in every year between 2011 and 2017. The highest single-year spike, from 21 in 2015 to 42 in 2016, is mostly the work of one provocateur launching an intentionally inflammatory college tour.

“11 of the 42 disinvitations were for a single speaker: Breitbart editor and right-wing provocateur Milo Yiannopoulos,” FIRE’s Alex Morey writes. “His controversial ‘Dangerous Faggot Tour’ traveled to colleges across the country this year and seemed to prompt a new report of attempted censorship in some form or another each week.”

That’s not to say that there aren’t disturbing incidents on campuses. Robby Soave, an editor at the libertarian magazine Reason (and a good personal friend of mine), has unearthed some troubling examples of students and faculty tossing free speech ideals to the side.

But I keep coming back to the denominator here: There are well over 4,000 colleges and universities in the United States. And multiple attempts to catalog free speech incidents on campus, from different sources, keep coming up with numbers in the dozens. And of those dozens, a fairly large percentage of the targets are liberals, and a fairly large percentage of the others were conservative speakers who seem to have come to campus with the intent of provoking students.
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Re: Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by Bootstrap »

Ken wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:42 pm He's a tenured professor who said something that HE KNEW would be controversial on YouTube and some students got upset. So what? That goes with the territory. This whole hubbub about professors being censored is actually a trivial non-issue that has been blown completely out of proportion.

He hasn't been fired or silenced.
Some students created a petition asking him to resign.

He has his free speech rights. They have theirs. With tenure, I doubt that his job is in danger. He knew this would generate publicity, he may well have planned on it. It's one way to become a political hero in today's polarized outrage media.

I'm not eager to side with either him or the students, but I do think they each have First Amendment rights.

Have you noticed how often the phrase "Freedom of Speech" is used to invoke outrage that someone said something? I disagree with both sides. I am not outraged that they said something.
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Re: Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by Ken »

Bootstrap wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:05 pm
Ken wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:42 pm He's a tenured professor who said something that HE KNEW would be controversial on YouTube and some students got upset. So what? That goes with the territory. This whole hubbub about professors being censored is actually a trivial non-issue that has been blown completely out of proportion.

He hasn't been fired or silenced.
Some students created a petition asking him to resign.

He has his free speech rights. They have theirs. With tenure, I doubt that his job is in danger. He knew this would generate publicity, he may well have planned on it. It's one way to become a political hero in today's polarized outrage media.

I'm not eager to side with either him or the students, but I do think they each have First Amendment rights.

Have you noticed how often the phrase "Freedom of Speech" is used to invoke outrage that someone said something? I disagree with both sides. I am not outraged that they said something.
In the grand scheme of things, some little political scuffle at the University of Vermont doesn't even rate in the top 1-million number of things I'm concerned about in this day and age. I expect there isn't a campus in the country where you can't find some political controversy of some sort. And it always goes both ways. Do a video in favor of LGBT rights at Liberty University and see how long you keep your job.
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Re: Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by Bootstrap »

Ken wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:34 pm In the grand scheme of things, some little political scuffle at the University of Vermont doesn't even rate in the top 1-million number of things I'm concerned about in this day and age. I expect there isn't a campus in the country where you can't find some political controversy of some sort. And it always goes both ways. Do a video in favor of LGBT rights at Liberty University and see how long you keep your job.
In the world of partisan outrage, both sides are caught up in a constant cycle of outrage and finger pointing. Those aren't great conditions for thinking clearly. Each side makes up examples of the other side's hypocrisy, often using false equivalences. It's a major part of what some people think about and talk about day after day after day, absorbing and spreading the daily dose of outrage at "the other side" on social media.

Instead of taking the time to carefully, calmly think through issues and facts and policies. Or spending our time thinking about how to build the Kingdom of God.
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temporal1
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Re: Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by temporal1 »

1. In the U.S., he/they have a right to speak.
i realize it’s become a real S-T-R-E-T-C-H,
but this topic is NOT about partisan politics. i’ve HAD MORE THAN MY FILL of constant battling for internet “supremacy.”

the right to speak is a benefit to all. what does that mean?
it means, tolerance of others, even in disagreement, even when insulted, even when feelings are hurt.

with the internet, reports of real life people “really” losing their jobs over words, is now common+expected.
not just tenured university professors.
even when no legal basis is found, pressure from social media, organized groups, etc., is so great, “voluntary” resignations are common. it’s bullying. and it’s widespread. friends+families are often miserable due to lack of tolerance.

look. the Pope is currently being blasted in the mainstream because he spoke about the Bible.

i follow no news outlets. because of the nature of the internet, i see some mainstream headlines, i do not often read content. i don’t want to give them the encouragement of clicking on their headlines. AP, CBS, NBC, NYT, WSJ, etc. ugh.
(if+when they improve, i will read again.) i want to respect them. i choose to wait. rather than be led around by the nose.

i like this professor’s CALM, methodical, approachable demeanor.
i’m not sure why the volume is so low .. but, a soft voice can be effective in encouraging focus from listeners.

notice, he’s not being snarky, using slang, innuendos, swearing, et al. nothing flashy.
he is stating his case. he’s not an entertainer or professional speaker. he’s a teacher stating his case.

my hope for this thread is to invite calm, methodical, reasoned dialogue about a topic that should be important to all.
or, silence is ok, too. whatever works out. :)
Last edited by temporal1 on Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Most or all of this drama, humiliation, wasted taxpayer money could be spared -
with even modest attempt at presenting balanced facts from the start.


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Re: Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by Josh »

In the world of MennoNet, you can always count on Bootstrap and Ken to be on the side of cancel culture, silencing criticism, and banning free speech.
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Re: Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by Bootstrap »

temporal1 wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:17 pm my hope for this thread is to invite calm, methodical, reasoned dialogue about a topic that should be important to all.
I think that's the right approach.

Really, I think partisan cancel culture works the same way in both directions. Those other people should just shut up. They have nothing valid to say. They are an existential threat to "us". They are trying to shut us up. They don't value us. They need to be stopped.

Both sides are saying that about the other side. It's the same story.
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Re: Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by Ken »

Josh wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:29 pm In the world of MennoNet, you can always count on Bootstrap and Ken to be on the side of cancel culture, silencing criticism, and banning free speech.
And you can always count on Josh to invent fantasy strawmen to attack.
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Re: Poll: UVM Prof Aaron Kindsvatter

Post by Bootstrap »

Josh wrote: Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:29 pm In the world of MennoNet, you can always count on Bootstrap and Ken to be on the side of cancel culture, silencing criticism, and banning free speech.
No, please read what I said. I'm saying that both sides have an equal right to speak. I'm saying I disagree with both sides. I don't think it's that hard to understand what I wrote.

I think your conservative political outrage is affecting your reading ability. Aren't you playing cancel culture and trying to silence disagreement with one-liners and insults? Please slow down and engage with what people are saying. Please stop making up words and putting them into other people's mouths.

You can't live in partisan outrage and be rational at the same time. Human brains don't work that way.
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