Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

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Bootstrap

Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by Bootstrap »

How do you relate what Paul says about his boasting in 2 Corinthians to the rest of the New Testament teaching on boasting?

Is Paul being wrongly prideful here? Or is he teaching another side of pride and boasting? How do you read this?
2 Corinthians 10 wrote:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 6 being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.

7 Look at what is before your eyes. If anyone is confident that he is Christ's, let him remind himself that just as he is Christ's, so also are we. 8 For even if I boast a little too much of our authority, which the Lord gave for building you up and not for destroying you, I will not be ashamed. 9 I do not want to appear to be frightening you with my letters. 10 For they say, “His letters are weighty and strong, but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech of no account.” 11 Let such a person understand that what we say by letter when absent, we do when present. 12 Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding.

13 But we will not boast beyond limits, but will boast only with regard to the area of influence God assigned to us, to reach even to you. 14 For we are not overextending ourselves, as though we did not reach you. For we were the first to come all the way to you with the gospel of Christ. 15 We do not boast beyond limit in the labors of others. But our hope is that as your faith increases, our area of influence among you may be greatly enlarged, 16 so that we may preach the gospel in lands beyond you, without boasting of work already done in another's area of influence. 17 “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” 18 For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.
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Sudsy

Re: Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by Sudsy »

On the surface without more in depth study - I think Paul is saying here that there is room for boasting by a follower of Christ but only if it is done in a way that the glory is still given to God (boast in the Lord). These folks seem to be comparing themselves to one another in a way that is fleshly. They are looking at Paul's letters as if he is trying to be a tough guy, when in person, he doesn't appear to be that tough. Seems they are jealous of who gets the glory amongst themselves in what they do.

So, when a missionary, for instance, returns home and tells what he/she is doing in a foreign land, do we see this as boasting from the flesh ? I suppose if a person is focused on self glory they could take what the missionary says as bragging and putting himself/herself on a pedestal over others. But those focused on God and how He works in and through His people through spiritual gifts would not take what is said as improper boasting (fleshly bragging). They would join in praise in what God is doing.

Seems the Corinthian church was having quite a struggle between the flesh and the spirit in many areas. Paul points out how carnal they were acting and thinking. Living for the Lord is not a competition with other believers about who follows Christ best. That is a worldly mindset.
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Bootstrap

Re: Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by Bootstrap »

Sudsy wrote:Living for the Lord is not a competition with other believers about who follows Christ best. That is a worldly mindset.
That would make a great signature!
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Sudsy

Re: Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by Sudsy »

Bootstrap wrote:
Sudsy wrote:Living for the Lord is not a competition with other believers about who follows Christ best. That is a worldly mindset.
That would make a great signature!
You talked me into it. I'll try not to boast about it being original. :D
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silentreader

Re: Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by silentreader »

Bootstrap wrote:How do you relate what Paul says about his boasting in 2 Corinthians to the rest of the New Testament teaching on boasting?

Is Paul being wrongly prideful here? Or is he teaching another side of pride and boasting? How do you read this?
2 Corinthians 10 wrote:3 For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh. 4 For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 6 being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete.

7 Look at what is before your eyes. If anyone is confident that he is Christ's, let him remind himself that just as he is Christ's, so also are we. 8 For even if I boast a little too much of our authority, which the Lord gave for building you up and not for destroying you, I will not be ashamed. 9 I do not want to appear to be frightening you with my letters. 10 For they say, “His letters are weighty and strong, but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech of no account.” 11 Let such a person understand that what we say by letter when absent, we do when present. 12 Not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves. But when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding.

13 But we will not boast beyond limits, but will boast only with regard to the area of influence God assigned to us, to reach even to you. 14 For we are not overextending ourselves, as though we did not reach you. For we were the first to come all the way to you with the gospel of Christ. 15 We do not boast beyond limit in the labors of others. But our hope is that as your faith increases, our area of influence among you may be greatly enlarged, 16 so that we may preach the gospel in lands beyond you, without boasting of work already done in another's area of influence. 17 “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.” 18 For it is not the one who commends himself who is approved, but the one whom the Lord commends.
I think possibly this passage should be considered along with
2 Corinthians 11:16-33English Standard Version (ESV)
Paul's Sufferings as an Apostle
16 I repeat, let no one think me foolish. But even if you do, accept me as a fool, so that I too may boast a little. 17 What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not as the Lord would[a] but as a fool. 18 Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast. 19 For you gladly bear with fools, being wise yourselves! 20 For you bear it if someone makes slaves of you, or devours you, or takes advantage of you, or puts on airs, or strikes you in the face. 21 To my shame, I must say, we were too weak for that!
But whatever anyone else dares to boast of—I am speaking as a fool—I also dare to boast of that. 22 Are they Hebrews? So am I. Are they Israelites? So am I. Are they offspring of Abraham? So am I. 23 Are they servants of Christ? I am a better one—I am talking like a madman—with far greater labors, far more imprisonments, with countless beatings, and often near death. 24 Five times I received at the hands of the Jews the forty lashes less one. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods. Once I was stoned. Three times I was shipwrecked; a night and a day I was adrift at sea; 26 on frequent journeys, in danger from rivers, danger from robbers, danger from my own people, danger from Gentiles, danger in the city, danger in the wilderness, danger at sea, danger from false brothers; 27 in toil and hardship, through many a sleepless night, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. 28 And, apart from other things, there is the daily pressure on me of my anxiety for all the churches. 29 Who is weak, and I am not weak? Who is made to fall, and I am not indignant?
30 If I must boast, I will boast of the things that show my weakness. 31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, he who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying. 32 At Damascus, the governor under King Aretas was guarding the city of Damascus in order to seize me, 33 but I was let down in a basket through a window in the wall and escaped his hands.
Footnotes:
2 Corinthians 11:17 Greek not according to the Lord
2 Corinthians 11:27 Or often in fasting


maybe as well as
Philippians 3:4-10English Standard Version (ESV)
4 though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: 5 circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; 6 as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law,[a] blameless. 7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,
Footnotes:
Philippians 3:6 Greek in the law


where Paul seems to suggest that this kind of boasting, whether theirs or his in response, stems from confidence 'in the flesh'.
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Bootstrap

Re: Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by Bootstrap »

silentreader wrote:... where Paul seems to suggest that this kind of boasting, whether theirs or his in response, stems from confidence 'in the flesh'.

Can you spell out your reasoning in more detail? I'm not quite with you yet, but I am just starting to try to understand this. To me, jurisdiction, authority, calling, and responsibility seem to be important factors in 2 Corinthians 10, and probably the other passages - do you see this differently?
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silentreader

Re: Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by silentreader »

Bootstrap wrote:
silentreader wrote:... where Paul seems to suggest that this kind of boasting, whether theirs or his in response, stems from confidence 'in the flesh'.

Can you spell out your reasoning in more detail? I'm not quite with you yet, but I am just starting to try to understand this. To me, jurisdiction, authority, calling, and responsibility seem to be important factors in 2 Corinthians 10, and probably the other passages - do you see this differently?
I agree with that, I was thinking more of his listing of his credentials(?) relating to his background in the two passages, 2Corinthians 11:16-33 and Philippians 3:4-10, not that he was necessarily boasting, but I think he was intimating that if his confidence was in that, then he could have boasted about it.
What you are saying is what we see in 2Corinthians 10.
My remarks were perhaps more of a confusing bunny trail than anything else.
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Bootstrap

Re: Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by Bootstrap »

What does James 1 add to our understanding of boasting?
James 1 wrote:9 The brother of humble circumstances should boast in his exaltation, 10 but the one who is rich should boast in his humiliation because he will pass away like a flower of the field. 11 For the sun rises with its scorching heat and dries up the grass; its flower falls off, and its beautiful appearance is destroyed. In the same way, the rich man will wither away while pursuing his activities.
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Bootstrap

Re: Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by Bootstrap »

Mounce's lexicon is pretty helpful for showing the various uses of the words for boasting in context:
Hmmm, but there's at least one mistake. 1 Corinthians 13:3 has a word that differs by one letter in early manuscripts, it can say either "to boast" or "to be burned". The lexicon lists the Greek word for the "to boast" reading, but the English translation follows the other reading, "to be burned". Bottom line: ignore 1 Corinthians 13:3 in this list.

Details in the Lumina notes which you can safely ignore. But for those who care ...
Lumina notes, 1 Corinthians 13:3 wrote:tc The reading καυχήσωμαι (kauchswmai, “I might boast”) is well supported by Ì א A B 048 33 1739* pc co Hier. The competing reading, καυθήσομαι (kauqhsomai, “I will burn”), is found in C D F G L 81 1175 1881* al latt and a host of patristic writers. From this reading other variants were obviously derived: καυθήσωμαι (kauqhswmai), a future subjunctive (“I might burn”) read by the Byzantine text and a few others (Ψ 1739 1881 Ï); and καυθῇ (kauqh, “it might be burned”) read by 1505 pc. On an external level, the Alexandrian reading is obviously superior, though the Western and Byzantine readings need to be accounted for. (The following discussion is derived largely from TCGNT 497-98). Internally, καυχήσωμαι is superior for the following reasons: (1) Once the Church started suffering persecution and martyrdom by fire, the v.l. naturally arose. Once there, it is difficult to see why any scribe would intentionally change it to καυχήσωμαι. (2) Involving as it does the change of just two letters (χ to θ [c to q], ω to ο [w to o]), this reading could be accomplished without much fanfare. Yet, it appears cumbersome in the context, both because of the passive voice and especially the retention of the first person (“If I give up my body that I may be burned”). A more logical word would have been the third person passive, καυθῇ, as read in 1505 (“If I give up my body that it may be burned”). (3) Although the connection between giving up one’s body and boasting is ambiguous, this very ambiguity has all the earmarks of being from Paul. It may have the force of giving up one’s body into slavery. In any event, it looks to be the harder reading. Incidentally, the Byzantine reading is impossible because the future subjunctive did not occur in Koine Greek. As the reading of the majority of Byzantine minuscules, its roots are clearly post-Koine and as such is a “grammatical monstrosity that cannot be attributed to Paul” (TCGNT 498). Cf. also the notes in BDF §28; MHT 2:219.
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Bootstrap

Re: Paul's boasting in 2 Corinthians 10

Post by Bootstrap »

Bootstrap wrote:Hmmm, but there's at least one mistake. 1 Corinthians 13:3 has a word that differs by one letter in early manuscripts, it can say either "to boast" or "to be burned". The lexicon lists the Greek word for the "to boast" reading, but the English translation follows the other reading, "to be burned". Bottom line: ignore 1 Corinthians 13:3 in this list.
Or else translate it "in order to boast" ... either way is legitimate.
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