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YorkandAdams wrote:They should (in theory) want to be spending time edifying the Lord in their activities. Singing songs of praise to the Lord, working hard, spending time with their family. The Eastern view is that they should be grown up and responsible well before they are ready to get married.

I grew up with this mentality and mostly appreciate. After being dean at a Bible School where the youth grew up in communities where it was assumed that youth should be permitted to go off and have fun together while the parents stay home and do the work, I've concluded that this worldview eventually destroys community life. The part I don't agree with EPMC is that adults playing is somehow ungodly.
I think it is great for adults to play sometimes but I think it works best when there is multi-generational play, not just the youth. Communities that include some play in conjunction with their cross-generational gatherings seem to find an expression that actually builds community. IMO, many EPMC and similar adults tend to be stilted in some aspects of relationships because they never have fun together, many Beachy and similar adults tend to be stilted in some aspects because they don't know how to spend time with each other in serious study and intellectual conversation.

I would guess that part of the reason we have so many divisions is because adults don't know how to take time to play. We become so serious and unable to laugh at ourselves that we can't manage.

Ernie wrote:

YorkandAdams wrote:They should (in theory) want to be spending time edifying the Lord in their activities. Singing songs of praise to the Lord, working hard, spending time with their family. The Eastern view is that they should be grown up and responsible well before they are ready to get married.

I grew up with this mentality and mostly appreciate. After being dean at a Bible School where the youth grew up in communities where it was assumed that youth should be permitted to go off and have fun together while the parents stay home and do the work, I've concluded that this worldview eventually destroys community life. The part I don't agree with EPMC is that adults playing is somehow ungodly.
I think it is great for adults to play sometimes but I think it works best when there is multi-generational play, not just the youth. Communities that include some play in conjunction with their cross-generational gatherings seem to find an expression that actually builds community. IMO, many EPMC and similar adults tend to be stilted in some aspects of relationships because they never have fun together, many Beachy and similar adults tend to be stilted in some aspects because they don't know how to spend time with each other in serious study and intellectual conversation.

Another thing I noticed while at bible school was the lack of social development in many of the young people. There was a genuine lack of ability to hold a conversation in a table setting. There is certainly room for different personalities, but a lot of people had tremendous reserve beyond what was healthy. It got so bad at one table that I had to specifically name a person when asking a question to get any response at all. Laughter was able to loosen up the atmosphere quite a bit, but it was nothing like I was used to.

YorkandAdams wrote: Another thing I noticed while at bible school was the lack of social development in many of the young people. There was a genuine lack of ability to hold a conversation in a table setting. There is certainly room for different personalities, but a lot of people had tremendous reserve beyond what was healthy. It got so bad at one table that I had to specifically name a person when asking a question to get any response at all. Laughter was able to loosen up the atmosphere quite a bit, but it was nothing like I was used to.

There is that tendency. You should visit sometime when they have one of the two week terms with a minimum age of 22. Quite a different mealtime atmosphere.

ken_sylvania wrote:You should visit sometime when they have one of the two week terms with a minimum age of 22. Quite a different mealtime atmosphere.

In what way?

I appreciate concerns about frivolity and pleasure-seeking, and there is a place for limiting activities that are strictly for fun. But I have observed (and experienced, to some degree) a failure to allow other opportunities for young people to spend time together and build friendships. Cottage meetings and whatnot tend to be too infrequent and highly structured to encourage meaningful relationships.

Young people (like all people) need opportunities to enjoy time with people they can relate to. Isolation and loneliness result when these opportunities are lacking.

PeterG wrote:I appreciate concerns about frivolity and pleasure-seeking, and there is a place for limiting activities that are strictly for fun. But I have observed (and experienced, to some degree) a failure to allow other opportunities for young people to spend time together and build friendships. Cottage meetings and whatnot tend to be too infrequent and highly structured to encourage meaningful relationships.

Young people (like all people) need opportunities to enjoy time with people they can relate to.

This can all happen at a multi-generational community function if the parents are not too oppressive.

YorkandAdams wrote:Another thing I noticed while at bible school was the lack of social development in many of the young people. There was a genuine lack of ability to hold a conversation in a table setting. There is certainly room for different personalities, but a lot of people had tremendous reserve beyond what was healthy.

It was that way 25 years ago when I spent time at EPMC Numidia summer teacher's institutes for a couple weeks at a time. Many of them were over 22 and still couldn't hold a conversation or relax.

Ernie wrote:

PeterG wrote:I appreciate concerns about frivolity and pleasure-seeking, and there is a place for limiting activities that are strictly for fun. But I have observed (and experienced, to some degree) a failure to allow other opportunities for young people to spend time together and build friendships. Cottage meetings and whatnot tend to be too infrequent and highly structured to encourage meaningful relationships.

Young people (like all people) need opportunities to enjoy time with people they can relate to.

This can all happen at a multi-generational community function if the parents are not too oppressive.

I well remember one school I taught at. At school picnic time most of the men came in their suits. They didn't have a problem with the children playing but it was beneath their dignity to do so themselves, apparently. I know that most of those children would have been delighted if the parents would have joined in and helped.

I have been to a number of school picnics where the ordained men wore suits; they and the other older men - all younger than I am - sat in the shade visiting and not paying much attention to what the children were doing. I didn't take time off from work to sit in the shade - I wanted to see what the children were doing. I almost always arrived in time for the tug of war and it was my job to encourage them on, even if it meant looking a bit ridiculous. It seemed the children looked forward to it and expected my participation. The young married and even up to middle aged participated in tug of war and a few other activities and then helped play ball in the afternoon. That is something I haven't done in a number of years now even though I have gone out to the field to watch them play at family reunions.