New Year's Resolutions

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Hats Off
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by Hats Off »

I believe if it is something that needs to be done, we need to resolve to do it whenever, not just at New Years. I have very little love for or confidence in New Year's resolutions. Today really isn't any different from yesterday; it is only when we see the calendar that we can see that we are now in another year.
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Wade
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by Wade »

Sudsy wrote:
Wade wrote:Sent to us yesterday by a Catholic priest that we got to know before I became a Christian:
DESIRES FOR 2018!

Forget resolutions, they are born in the ego and destined to perish there. Noble desires in the heart and willingness to work with them are the stuff that lead us into the splendour of our human existence. St. Therese... prayed simply: God, increase in my heart the desire of loving you!

People need no longer live in the dead past but can always embrace the live present. How many of us are willing to declare to ourselves our fragility, the truth about ourselves? Can this new year be such as to open up for us worlds within ourselves that have long been ignored, isolated and have become now practically inaccessible to us.

I suggest for consideration three great desires or invitations to willingness for the start of a new life. 1. Learn to communicate. Read, read and then read some more. 2. Seek the truth with all your heart. 3. Believe in the gift of Fortitude. St. Bruno... said: the greatest human drama that can ever exist is in resisting the evil one and the indispensable virtue for this is fortitude. This inner struggle is destined to be played out somewhere in this life by everyone in the world. Fortitude is never conquered, if it is conquered it is not fortitude. Without fortitude, neither wisdom or justice or power is worth anything. It is one of the gifts of the Spirit underlined in Confirmation and available to all.
Interesting so I had to look up 'fortitude' as a gift of the Holy Spirit. Joseph J. Rickaby (a Jesuit priest) describes it as a willingness to stand up for what is right in the sight of God, even if it means accepting rejection, verbal abuse, or physical harm. The gift of fortitude allows people the firmness of mind that is required both in doing good and in enduring evil. It is the perfection of the cardinal virtue of the same name.

And this took me to 'fortitude' being a 'cardinal virtue' so I had to look that up as I have little Roman Catholic exposure to many of their teachings. Fortitude is one of 4 cardinal virtues. Even non-Christians have some degree of fortitude. But a believer also has fortitude as a gift of the Holy Spirit which adds a dimension to being able to operate with fortitude in a supernatural way. This is my understanding at this point.

Here is a one of other youtubes on this gift and explained in English in the first 2 minutes.



I don't quite view all NY resolutions to be ego based as the quote you received, Wade but I think many can be. This did begin an interesting study that I will continue with today related to this cardinal virtue and gifts from an RC understanding. Thankyou for sharing.
I thought it was interesting enough to post.

Especially when I am relating to unbelievers and other denominations I try to not get to hung up on words... But I do need to be careful I guess.

I took fortitude as a mixture of faith, and longsuffering. I am not sure about the ego either but am certainly willing to consider he was meaning that the other ingredients needed alongside the fortitude he was speaking of was meekness and humility otherwise he is likely right about the ego. So I took it as an encouragement to persevere through Christ.
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MaxPC
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by MaxPC »

Wade wrote:
I thought it was interesting enough to post.

Especially when I am relating to unbelievers and other denominations I try to not get to hung up on words... But I do need to be careful I guess.

I took fortitude as a mixture of faith, and longsuffering. I am not sure about the ego either but am certainly willing to consider he was meaning that the other ingredients needed alongside the fortitude he was speaking of was meekness and humility otherwise he is likely right about the ego. So I took it as an encouragement to persevere through Christ.
You understand it rightly, Wade. Fortitude is perseverance in the face of:
-temptations
-persecutions
-long term
-short term
all to the Glory of God and in humble service to His Son.

The ego driven resolutions referred to are those that serve self, personal ambitions and personal vanities. A good example to tell the difference would be the resolution to lose weight:
-is the motivation for better health to serve God and care for family (humble motive) or
-personal appearance or win races (vanity)?
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Max (Plain Catholic)
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Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Sudsy
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by Sudsy »

I think some, perhaps many, of us have determined to make a fresh start in some area of our life (as many do to begin a new year) and find our own determination is not enough to i.e. create a new habit and in a short period of time, the pursuit is dropped. And, speaking for myself, these pursuits have been both ego based (i.e. weight loss) and also a resolve in the area of spiritual disciplines (i.e. time allotments to prayer and bible reading). However, I have not considered pursuing a gift of the Holy Spirit for the fortitude required to do what in my own strength I could not do.

This brings me to the subject of spiritual gifts and I'm wondering what others here believe about pursuing spiritual gifts. In the case of a resolution asking the Holy Spirit for the enabling power to fulfill a resolution that lines up with scripture.

1 Cor. 14:1 we are commanded to - "Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy."

I have prayed before for God to help me be what I can't be in myself (i.e. loving others) but have not thought of asking, eagerly desiring, to have a specific spiritual gift such as fortitude. Someone may say there is nowhere in the NT where we are to pray to the Holy Spirit for a gift. However, isn’t it reasonable to think that if we are responsible for desiring spiritual gifts and the Spirit is responsible for distributing them, we should ask that He fulfill our desire by granting us the gifts we want to see manifest in our lives ? The Spirit would know our true motivation and whether or not we are seeking our own glory or the of God and His Church.

So, perhaps we can use this thread to further discuss seeking/earnestly desiring specific spiritual gifts to accomplish what God wants His Church to accomplish through His enabling power. And, of course, this must be pursued in 'the way of love' for Christ and His Church. I'll leave it at that for now.
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MaxPC
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by MaxPC »

Good thoughts, Sudsy. A little fact that might help in understanding the nature and source of these teachings: The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit were defined by the early Christian Fathers and were derived from Isaiah 11.

Another aspect regarding fortitude is that for the sake of Christ, we actively choose to embrace this gift of resolve and strength in spite of the temptations to discouragement and other negative emotions. This particular gift of the Holy Spirit requires our free will choice to use it.
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Sudsy
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by Sudsy »

MaxPC wrote:Good thoughts, Sudsy. A little fact that might help in understanding the nature and source of these teachings: The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit were defined by the early Christian Fathers and were derived from Isaiah 11.

Another aspect regarding fortitude is that for the sake of Christ, we actively choose to embrace this gift of resolve and strength in spite of the temptations to discouragement and other negative emotions. This particular gift of the Holy Spirit requires our free will choice to use it.
Yes, I learned where these 7 gifts have originated in my study on them. What I haven't found is any reference to praying for a gift of the Spirit and the RC belief is that these are traits that are infused into every believer as a permanent endowment at their baptism, nurtured by the practice of the seven virtues, and sealed in the sacrament of confirmation. Because they were spoken of in Isaiah as referring to Jesus and Jesus is now in the believer as the Holy Spirit, we have these gifts already in us. Since they are 'infused' in us, it seems to be more a matter of following the Holy Spirit's promptings and by acting on those promptings to experience supernatural empowerment to carry out those promptings.

If I got this correctly, then why does 1 Cor 14:1 say to 'eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit' if we already have them ? Seems Paul was telling the Corinthians, for instance, if you speak in an unknown tongue, pray to get the gift of interpretation 1 Cor 14:13. He also pointed out that we are in control of how these gifts are used and in the church speaking in an unknown tongue must be followed by an interpretation or the speaker should be silent. (this one was ignored often in my upbringing). And in 1 Cor 12:11 speaking of these gifts - "All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines."

So, it would seem to me that although we have the Holy Spirit living in us, His gifts are given to each person as He decides and we are to eagerly desire spiritual gifts, meaning, to me, I don't have them all to begin with. I see these gifts as being extremely important to be active in the local church in a loving way for the benefit of all in the church. They also are extremely important in our individual sanctification to grow spiritually and to be used in spiritual warfare.

I would love to hear some other Anabaptists, as well as others, to also join in and share their understandings on this.
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MaxPC
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by MaxPC »

Sudsy, am not abandoning you but we're in the middle of a project here. Re 1 Corinthians 14 my approach would be to ask myself if he is speaking to new Christians, newly baptized Christians, veterans, etc.

Let me look at this when I have my books and spare moments :D
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
MaxPC
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by MaxPC »

Sudsy wrote: If I got this correctly, then why does 1 Cor 14:1 say to 'eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit' if we already have them ? Seems Paul was telling the Corinthians, for instance, if you speak in an unknown tongue, pray to get the gift of interpretation 1 Cor 14:13. He also pointed out that we are in control of how these gifts are used and in the church speaking in an unknown tongue must be followed by an interpretation or the speaker should be silent. (this one was ignored often in my upbringing). And in 1 Cor 12:11 speaking of these gifts - "All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines."

So, it would seem to me that although we have the Holy Spirit living in us, His gifts are given to each person as He decides and we are to eagerly desire spiritual gifts, meaning, to me, I don't have them all to begin with. I see these gifts as being extremely important to be active in the local church in a loving way for the benefit of all in the church. They also are extremely important in our individual sanctification to grow spiritually and to be used in spiritual warfare.

I would love to hear some other Anabaptists, as well as others, to also join in and share their understandings on this.
I hope I'm focusing on the correct portion of your query in your post here.

It's my experience that we can actually have something but not desire it or appreciate it. We can have characteristics that we don't appreciate in ourselves because our attention, our focus is on something else.

The secular world distracts us into wanting material things rather than spiritual gifts. E.g. the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit are God-focused. The secular world promotes ego or "self-focus". Secular temptations are abundant and can distract Christians of all stages and ages unless they desire the better part, that of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Does this help with the framing of your inquiry?
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Valerie
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by Valerie »

Sudsy wrote:I think some, perhaps many, of us have determined to make a fresh start in some area of our life (as many do to begin a new year) and find our own determination is not enough to i.e. create a new habit and in a short period of time, the pursuit is dropped. And, speaking for myself, these pursuits have been both ego based (i.e. weight loss) and also a resolve in the area of spiritual disciplines (i.e. time allotments to prayer and bible reading). However, I have not considered pursuing a gift of the Holy Spirit for the fortitude required to do what in my own strength I could not do.

This brings me to the subject of spiritual gifts and I'm wondering what others here believe about pursuing spiritual gifts. In the case of a resolution asking the Holy Spirit for the enabling power to fulfill a resolution that lines up with scripture.

1 Cor. 14:1 we are commanded to - "Follow the way of love and eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit, especially prophecy."

I have prayed before for God to help me be what I can't be in myself (i.e. loving others) but have not thought of asking, eagerly desiring, to have a specific spiritual gift such as fortitude. Someone may say there is nowhere in the NT where we are to pray to the Holy Spirit for a gift. However, isn’t it reasonable to think that if we are responsible for desiring spiritual gifts and the Spirit is responsible for distributing them, we should ask that He fulfill our desire by granting us the gifts we want to see manifest in our lives ? The Spirit would know our true motivation and whether or not we are seeking our own glory or the of God and His Church.

So, perhaps we can use this thread to further discuss seeking/earnestly desiring specific spiritual gifts to accomplish what God wants His Church to accomplish through His enabling power. And, of course, this must be pursued in 'the way of love' for Christ and His Church. I'll leave it at that for now.
It seems to me the value in the seven "Spirits" described in Isiah 11, are not 'exactly' the same as the Spiritual Gifts that Apostle Paul described in more detail in 1 Corinthians 12-14:


The 9 Gifts of the Holy Spirit

1. The Word of Knowledge 2. The Word of Wisdom 3. The Gift of Prophecy
4. The Gift of Faith 5. The Gifts of Healings 6. The Working of Miracles
7. The Discerning of Spirits 8. Different Kinds of Tongues 9. The Interpretation of Tongues

Joel 2 was a prophecy that was fulfilled in Acts 2 it is explained by Apostle Peter:
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Apostle Paul in 1 Corinthians then goes on to explain the 9 "Gifts of the Spirit" which are to edify the Church-
This is how I understand it- I believe this is in addition to (although some are the same) as the 7 Spirits described in Isaiah 11, am I seeing this right/wrong?

(This is also an area of 'denominationalism' that is discouraging as different denominations don't necessarily have different 'gifts' as different 'members of the body' but different denominations almost vehemently disagree that gifts continued afer the Apostolic age- so you have large sects of "The Church" denying they continued, and other sects of "The Church" affirming their continuation- Both cannot be right.
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Sudsy
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Re: New Year's Resolutions

Post by Sudsy »

MaxPC wrote:
Sudsy wrote: If I got this correctly, then why does 1 Cor 14:1 say to 'eagerly desire gifts of the Spirit' if we already have them ? Seems Paul was telling the Corinthians, for instance, if you speak in an unknown tongue, pray to get the gift of interpretation 1 Cor 14:13. He also pointed out that we are in control of how these gifts are used and in the church speaking in an unknown tongue must be followed by an interpretation or the speaker should be silent. (this one was ignored often in my upbringing). And in 1 Cor 12:11 speaking of these gifts - "All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he distributes them to each one, just as he determines."

So, it would seem to me that although we have the Holy Spirit living in us, His gifts are given to each person as He decides and we are to eagerly desire spiritual gifts, meaning, to me, I don't have them all to begin with. I see these gifts as being extremely important to be active in the local church in a loving way for the benefit of all in the church. They also are extremely important in our individual sanctification to grow spiritually and to be used in spiritual warfare.

I would love to hear some other Anabaptists, as well as others, to also join in and share their understandings on this.
I hope I'm focusing on the correct portion of your query in your post here.

It's my experience that we can actually have something but not desire it or appreciate it. We can have characteristics that we don't appreciate in ourselves because our attention, our focus is on something else.

In the natural sense I agree as, for instance, I know guys that have an exceptional natural athletic ability to perform in a certain sport and yet have no interest in sports. They can leisurely play some sport and far exceed others who work their hearts out to try to play at that level that don't have that natural gift/ability.

However, in the spiritual sense, I'm not sure God gives us certain spiritual gifts that we can just 'sit on'. In 1 Corinthians 12:28-31 and in 1 Corinthians 14:12-13 God chooses to give us the gift(s) each of us need in our area(s) of serving Him. Paul tells the Corinthians that if they are going to covet or long after spiritual gifts, they should desire the more edifying gifts, such as prophesying (speaking forth the word of God to build up others). Now, why would Paul tell them to strongly desire the “greater” gifts if they already had been given all they would be given, and there was no further opportunity of gaining these greater gifts ?


The secular world distracts us into wanting material things rather than spiritual gifts. E.g. the spiritual gifts of the Holy Spirit are God-focused. The secular world promotes ego or "self-focus". Secular temptations are abundant and can distract Christians of all stages and ages unless they desire the better part, that of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

Agree.

When I have discussed this topic before there often is a statement that we "should' seek the Giver and not the Gifts". Or the ''fruit of the Spirit should be pursued over the gifts of the Spirit". But the Giver of the Gifts is the One who enables us to produce the fruit of the Spirit to produce what God wants to accomplish in and through us. When we don't consider the gifts of the Spirit to be essential, I think we wander off into all kinds of human driven religious activity.


Does this help with the framing of your inquiry?

Yes, thankyou for your responds. In one of my inquiries I ran across what one fellow found as 28 spiritual gifts and many scholars agree on 18 being the number. It is an interesting study which I'm still exploring.
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