Christianity and traditional medicine

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

KingdomBuilder wrote:
Joy wrote:What I would like to know about some practices frowned on is why they are wrong.
Preferably with some scriptural citations.
Better yet, for six bucks you can get a copy of "The High Cost of Holistic Healing: A Concise examination of Alternative Medicine Practices and Related Issues." It is on Amazon. Author (Nolan Byler) is a conservative Mennonite, a D.O., and a pastor. He does a really good job.

Most of these practices, acupuncture in particular, originate in a system of belief that is non-christian, and completely based on the truth of the underlying religious system. Other than that religious system, there is no objective evidence it works any better than a placebo (Which DOES work, particularly with chronic pain). Concern is that it provides a point of contact with the "doctrine of demons."

But I will say that Dr. Byler can explain it far better than I.

J.M.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Other than that religious system, there is no objective evidence it works any better than a placebo (Which DOES work, particularly with chronic pain).
What's interesting is all of the people who use acupuncture therapy on animals (namely dogs), and people really line up to tell you how well it's worked. I can't imagine any element of placebo in the dogs. What do you think?


So basically, I see
-- disagreeing based on the lack of evidence from 'modern' science
--perceived pagan origins
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Wade
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Wade »

The problem with the avoiding paganism reasoning is that modern medicine is much developed and controlled by secular humanists(pagans). Assisted suicide, abortion, etc, and etc, are all being done in the same building and by possibly the same doctor that you are going to for treatment(in Canada anyway). So to use the reasoning to avoid anything but modern medicine to avoid paganism doesn't work, why should we only avoid alternate and not both?
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Joy
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Joy »

Medical errors, that is, with conventional medicine, are the third leading cause of death in this country, according to Johns Hopkins Medicine. That lessens my faith in conventional types of treatment.

Furthermore, if I'm somewhere that has television on, I hear the drug commercials that have to list unbelievable multiple side effects; I heard one that admitted four possible fatal effects. When I commented, my host laughed and remarked that I must not hear commercials much, as that is so typical.

I believe many herbs' purpose is to treat our ailments. Including in the future:
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
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2Tim. 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Joy wrote:Medical errors, that is, with conventional medicine, are the third leading cause of death in this country, according to Johns Hopkins Medicine. That lessens my faith in conventional types of treatment
I think many who seek out "alternative" medicines do so for these reasons. Simply, many seek to get back to a less invasive, less (potentially) toxic experience free of the side effects like those you mentioned.
Wade wrote:The problem with the avoiding paganism reasoning is that modern medicine is much developed and controlled by secular humanists(pagans).
Very interesting perspective, Wade. Something to think about.
One thing is that modern medicine can easily become a god. In fact, it is a god for many. Often you will hear this atheistic society refuting God by saying "look what we can do, we don't need God". It simply strips the experience of medicinal practice of any spiritual connection to our creator and sustainer, that is, God.
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Hats Off
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Hats Off »

And yet regardless of what type of medicine we turn to, man is born to die. We can lengthen out life, we can improve the quality of life for some but death is the ultimate end here on earth.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Hats Off wrote:death is the ultimate end here on earth.
Right. Sounds odd, but that's something we, as Christians, can be thankful for.
Sadly, the end on earth marks the end of any hope for repentance and salvation for many. Just today a classmate and acquaintance a year younger than I died via suicide.
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Hats Off
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Hats Off »

W******aft: The art or power of bringing supernatural power to bear, or the act or practice of attempting to do so.
Divi**tion: Divining, insight or discovery of the unknown or future by supernatural means. To divine is to make out by inspiration, magic, intuition, to foresee.
Occ***: Beyond the range of ordinary knowledge, involving the supernatural, mystical, magical.
There are many alternative health care practices (some of which are also used in agriculture to increase yields, control pests and enhance the health of livestock,) which fall under the categories of witchcraft or divination. These practices are condemned in the Old and New Testaments, by many Anabaptist and other Christian writers and by doctors and scientists. Even the words and teachings of the practitioners themselves verify that these methods draw on Higher Powers (other than God) or magical qualities and defy science.
As disciples of Jesus we need to avoid any and all involvement with these powers of darkness. But in order to avoid them we need some idea as to what we should be avoiding. If those who promote the therapy or product tie its effectiveness to non-physical (therefore spiritual) power, it should be avoided. If the practitioner uses terms such as Vital Energy, Vital Force, Universal Energy, Innate Intelligence, Healing Force, Life Force, Electricity or Electromagnetic Energy, Meridians or Chi, or any variation of these terms, we should be very careful. The problem with these remedies is not that they don’t work, but that they do work!
Lists of practices that have the characteristics of divination usually include but are not limited to: Reflexology, Applied Kinesiology (muscle testing), Acupuncture, Acupressure, Homeopathy (with potentization), Radiesthesia (pendulums, water-witching, etc), Yoga, Hypnotherapy, Braucha, Iridology, Pain-Pulling and some forms of Aromatherapy. Some will include chiropractic in their lists as well; Lester Burkholder1 quotes a survey of 5,000 US chiropractors taken by the National Board of Chiropractic Examiners that found that 65% used meridian therapy or other occultist practices. Dr. Nolan Byler2, suggests we find out how our chiropractor works; we might have to find a different chiropractor.
If you check a concordance you will find Old and New Testament scriptures that condemn divination. Following are some quotes from a variety of sources to support the thesis that many of these practices have no place in the life of a Christian.
“Throughout the Old Testament God declares His fierce hatred against all forms of witchcraft. …Yet so often when someone expresses concern about water-witching or other forms of divination, or about the vast array of occultist health care practices, the response goes something like this: “Well, we just have different opinions about these things,” or “Just because we don’t understand how something works does not necessarily mean that it’s w****craft.”

… In answering the question about what is and what isn’t w******aft, the biggest problem is not that we don’t know. The biggest problem is that we don’t care. When we make statements like these...we simply reveal that we don’t have the same hatred for witc*****t that God has for it. .., if we should discover that indeed we have been guilty of this heinous sin, we will repent of it thoroughly and seek the freedom that can only come by the blood of Jesus. (Roger Hertzler, Halsey, Oregon)”

“In a new paper, Dr. David Gorski, of Wayne State University School of Medicine and Dr. Steven Novella of Yale University, say that it is unethical to study alternative medicine therapies in people if those therapies violate well-established laws and theories of science. The chances that such therapies will work better than a placebo are "close to impossible," they say. "There are some treatments that are so incredibly implausible" that there is no need to test them, Gorski said. “In order for homeopathy to work, "a lot of what we understand about physics and chemistry would have to be not just wrong, but spectacularly wrong."
“As with any form of divination, we are opening ourselves to Spirit, and it is always a wise choice to ask for protection from God, our angels or spirit guides before we begin. We cannot always control what comes through to us, but our spiritual protectors can. Surround yourself with white light and say a prayer of protection and guidance before scrying, (a form of divination) or performing any magickal workings.” (From a training article on divination)

“Supposing that the belief in witchcraft were an idle superstition, it would be strange that the suggestion should nowhere be made that the evil of these practices only lay in the pretending to the possession of powers which did not really exist.” (Excerpts from Catholic Encyclopedia)

“On religious grounds to say that divination and kindred arts were complete impostures would be to contradict Scripture. In it we read laws forbidding magic, we have facts like the deeds of Jannes and Jambres before Pharaoh, and we have a declaration of God showing it possible for a sign or wonder to be foretold by false prophets and to come to pass (Deuteronomy 13:1-12).” (Excerpts from Catholic Encyclopedia)

“Alternative therapies lack such scientific validation, and their effectiveness is either unproved or disproved. The scientific community has criticized alternative medicine as being based on misleading statements, quackery, pseudoscience, fraud, or poor scientific methodology. Promoting alternative medicine has been called dangerous and unethical.” Wikipedia

We have here just a few statements that indicate that Christian writers, doctors and scientists as well as self-confessed occult practitioners all agree with the Holy Scriptures that wit***raft, whatever name it goes by, is from the evil one, and not of God. What more do we need to convict us that these practises ought not once to be named among us!
Additional Reading:
A Closer Look1, Lester Burkholder, Weaverland Publications
The High Cost of Holistic Healing2, Dr. Nolan Byler (a conservative Mennonite Bishop), Ridgeway Publishing
Gripped by a Dark Hand, Paul Weaver (a conservative Mennonite Bishop), Ridgeway Publishing
Dowsing, How does it Work? Ken Miller, Calvary Publications Inc.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Hats Off wrote:Lists of practices that have the characteristics of divination usually include but are not limited to: Reflexology, Applied Kinesiology (muscle testing), Acupuncture, Acupressure, Homeopathy (with potentization), Radiesthesia (pendulums, water-witching, etc), Yoga, Hypnotherapy, Braucha, Iridology, Pain-Pulling and some forms of Aromatherapy.
Wonder why herbalism isn't listed? Herbal usage has strongly been associated with heavily occult practice and various forms of divination.
Still, though, many non-religious and even apparently devout Christians practice herbalism.
To be fair, I guess, plenty of herbs are mentioned favorably in scripture, but those same herbs were and still are used in pagan, occult, and divination cultures.

For me, that begs the question of what is it that specifically makes a practice unclean or dangerous for Christians? Obviously some kind of pagan association with a practice is hardly enough, or else we wouldn't see these things in Scripture, right?. How do we differentiate between practices with pagan pasts (hard to find any that don't)?
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Judas Maccabeus »

Joy wrote:Medical errors, that is, with conventional medicine, are the third leading cause of death in this country, according to Johns Hopkins Medicine. That lessens my faith in conventional types of treatment.

Furthermore, if I'm somewhere that has television on, I hear the drug commercials that have to list unbelievable multiple side effects; I heard one that admitted four possible fatal effects. When I commented, my host laughed and remarked that I must not hear commercials much, as that is so typical.

I believe many herbs' purpose is to treat our ailments. Including in the future:
Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.
Ah...did you read the entire article? As usual the devil is in the definition. The article is behind a 23$ paywall, but this is the from the synopsis that was released in JHMI's monthly publicity rag:

"The researchers caution that most medical errors aren't due to inherently bad doctors, and that reporting these errors shouldn't be addressed by punishment or legal action. Rather, they say, most errors represent systemic problems, including poorly coordinated care, fragmented insurance networks, the absence or underuse of safety nets, and other protocols, in addition to unwarranted variation in physician practice patterns that lack accountability."

Translation: Most of what they are calling medical error is not the poor practice of physicians and others, but the fact that here in america our care system is so fragmented it does not deliver optimal care to everyone. Proper preventive services are not available to all, insurance networks throw up blocks, and the "safety net" for the poor is a joke. It will only get far worse under the current administration. The number he is referring to is extra deaths due to our flawed system as a whole.

I would take those lawyer ads with more than a grain of salt, they are frequently trolling for clients to see if they can be one of the lead plaintiffs lawyer in the next big class action. (A blood thinner can cause bleeding???? No joke!) You would be better off of you got rid of TV entirely. As to the side effects possible in the drug inserts, many of them refer to something that happened one or two times in Phase III trials. Many are highly unlikely to be seen in actual practice.

J.M.
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