Christianity and traditional medicine

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby Judas Maccabeus » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:15 pm

KingdomBuilder wrote:
Joy wrote:Medical errors, that is, with conventional medicine, are the third leading cause of death in this country, according to Johns Hopkins Medicine. That lessens my faith in conventional types of treatment

I think many who seek out "alternative" medicines do so for these reasons. Simply, many seek to get back to a less invasive, less (potentially) toxic experience free of the side effects like those you mentioned.

Wade wrote:The problem with the avoiding paganism reasoning is that modern medicine is much developed and controlled by secular humanists(pagans).

Very interesting perspective, Wade. Something to think about.
One thing is that modern medicine can easily become a god. In fact, it is a god for many. Often you will hear this atheistic society refuting God by saying "look what we can do, we don't need God". It simply strips the experience of medicinal practice of any spiritual connection to our creator and sustainer, that is, God.


Most people in actual practice are all too aware of what they can't do. You will seldom find that level of arrogance in people that actually take care of patients, a few surgeons excepted.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby KingdomBuilder » Sat Oct 21, 2017 7:28 pm

Judas Maccabeus wrote:Most people in actual practice are all too aware of what they can't do. You will seldom find that level of arrogance in people that actually take care of patients, a few surgeons excepted.


That's really not my point. I think you misunderstood me.
I'm not talking about an "I can do anything attitude" among doctors. Of course all doctors realize they cannot do anything. I'm talking about our societ's mindset and how human ability and advancement often receives all the praise. This was my point.

Anyways, let's not let this topic shift to becoming about the morality surrounding conventional medical professionals, please.
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Joy
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby Joy » Sat Oct 21, 2017 10:16 pm

There have been enough frightening incidents just among my friends' medical experiences to shake me up, and erode my faith in medical professionals.

Not sure what the suggestion that I give up television altogether has to with medical dangers. Especially since I don't even own a television.

Anyway, I did order the book by the Mennonite author, and hope to be enlightened.
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2Tim. 3:16,17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby KingdomBuilder » Sun Oct 22, 2017 9:22 pm

I think that intention is also a huge consideration here. It's not the only one, but I think it is vital for Christians to have Christian intentions.

An example: Maybe one doesn't view strict, Western herbalism as uncomfortably pagan or unbelievable. That's fine (well, for this example let's pretend it's fine, please). Now, let's say that person desires to use something in a way that doesn't align with how Christians should see the world, then even Western herbalism has gone wrong and becomes a sin. Perhaps he or she decides to take, say, pine flower to "relieve feelings of guilt or shame" (yes, I've heard people talk about such...). Now, guilt and shame are God-given emotions that should be dealt with at God's Throne and by His grace, not a tree.

Hope my example makes sense. But I believe that intention, with limits, is important.
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appleman2006
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby appleman2006 » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:11 am

Just a couple of further comments. Someone earlier in this discussion (do not remember who for sure) mentioned that they did not see how the devil could possibly be involved in healing as the devil is only evil. I take great exception to that. The fact that the devil according to scripture at times portrays himself as an angel of light is all the proof I need. In a sense this type of belief I think is actually a by product of prosperity gospel teaching. Let me quickly try to explain.
I am a strong believer that God works out all things for good to the believer. I believe that at times he uses sickness tragedy and even natural death to bring about his perfect will and ultimate goodness in our lives. And so I also see the opposite as being true. The devil who only is after our destruction will at times come as an angel of light to try and fool us into his grasp. The wonderful thing is that if we truly have the Holy Spirit living within us and are tuned in to him we do not have to fear being deceived by the devil And so my practice is to stay away from things that are doubtful. I try to be charitable to those that see things different than I but I do have concerns and hope people will be just as charitable with me when I express them.

I have known Dr. Byler personally for many years and highly value his expertise and knowledge. Ironically he is also a chiropractor as well as an MD, which is not something we have here in Canada, and so comes with a great deal of perspective from various fields. If you are looking for answers and have not have not read his book I would strongly recommend doing so with an open mind before becoming too strong in your opinions.
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Judas Maccabeus
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby Judas Maccabeus » Mon Oct 23, 2017 9:12 pm

Joy wrote:There have been enough frightening incidents just among my friends' medical experiences to shake me up, and erode my faith in medical professionals.

Not sure what the suggestion that I give up television altogether has to with medical dangers. Especially since I don't even own a television.

Anyway, I did order the book by the Mennonite author, and hope to be enlightened.

Good.

You seemed to be describing ads that appear on TV, normally placed by plaintiff's lawyers, trolling for clients,"If you have taken X and feel you've been harmed, call this number." I live in the epicenter of Asbestos suits, and am well familiar with these ads.

Medicine IS frightening. We do dangerous things, largely because we treat dangerous diseases. Even if everything is done perfectly, the outcome is sometimes not what we want. However, in many cases the alternative (do nothing) is even more frightening. Death is, after all, the last enemy.

Why such alternative medicine practices are so dangerous is that many/most of them are based on some sort of non-christian spirituality, normally eastern. While I doubt any of us would respond favorably if someone asked us to participate in a puja (Offering) to Ganeesh (The "elephant" god), maybe we would be open to say, yoga to relieve our stress. This serves as a point of contact to the spirit world. You will be much more open to other eastern practices if these work. Remember, the forces behind this ARE really demonic. Do you really want to be dealing with people who are teaching the "doctrine of Demons."

I have seen way too many people who attend church caught up in this.

J.M.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby KingdomBuilder » Mon Oct 23, 2017 11:41 pm

Judas Maccabeus wrote:While I doubt any of us would respond favorably if someone asked us to participate in a puja (Offering) to Ganeesh (The "elephant" god), maybe we would be open to say, yoga to relieve our stress. This serves as a point of contact to the spirit world. You will be much more open to other eastern practices if these work. Remember, the forces behind this ARE really demonic. Do you really want to be dealing with people who are teaching the "doctrine of Demons."


Don't get me wrong..I'm not for yoga- never done it never will.

However, I have a hard time believing that there is hardly anything "spiritual" going on in 90% (or more..) of all so-called "yoga classes". I don't know what "yoga" is like where you are, but here it is typically a bunch of middle aged girlfriends or some college students who only eat Whole Foods getting together after work in $200 exercise clothes at a posh gym, stretching in odd ways and probably sipping wine intermittently. Now, in light of the yoga you describe (yoga in it's true sense), I really don't see much in common beyond the name.
When I used to be on sports teams, we did breathing and stretching exercises for lung capacity and flexibility before practice that, if the setting were different, may have looked a lot like yoga. So what's the difference between this and the aforementioned, besides the name?
I'd apply the same line of thought to many "Christians" today. They may carry the name, break bread and drink wine, wear a cross, etc... but it simply is not an indicator of what's really going on spiritually.
My argument here is that doing things that look or sound somewhat reminiscent of some distant spiritual practice doesn't make it a spiritual reality.


Just some thoughts I have. Do I sound like a heretic?
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appleman2006
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby appleman2006 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:21 am

No I do not think you sound like a heretic at all. In fact on that I am inclined to agree with you. I honestly am not one of those that sees the devil behind every bush so to speak.

There are for me considerable reasons even beyond the spiritual that I have concerns about many forms of alternative medicine but I do not think this thread is for that discussion and I do not want to take it there.

I simply have expressed my concerns because I do think it is important that people at least look into the possible spiritual implications of some of the stuff out there. Some of it simply cannot be explained outside of a spiritual realm and I think that is the stuff you should watch out for.

As to Yoga? Why not instead simply take 15 to 20 minutes a day and meditate on the things of God, If you feel better doing it cross-legged on a hard gym floor, I will leave that between you and God.
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silentreader
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby silentreader » Tue Oct 24, 2017 12:26 pm

appleman2006 wrote:No I do not think you sound like a heretic at all. In fact on that I am inclined to agree with you. I honestly am not one of those that sees the devil behind every bush so to speak.

There are for me considerable reasons even beyond the spiritual that I have concerns about many forms of alternative medicine but I do not think this thread is for that discussion and I do not want to take it there.

I simply have expressed my concerns because I do think it is important that people at least look into the possible spiritual implications of some of the stuff out there. Some of it simply cannot be explained outside of a spiritual realm and I think that is the stuff you should watch out for.

As to Yoga? Why not instead simply take 15 to 20 minutes a day and meditate on the things of God, If you feel better doing it cross-legged on a hard gym floor, I will leave that between you and God.


But make sure you are modestly dressed. ;)
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appleman2006
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Postby appleman2006 » Tue Oct 24, 2017 1:54 pm

silentreader wrote:
appleman2006 wrote:No I do not think you sound like a heretic at all. In fact on that I am inclined to agree with you. I honestly am not one of those that sees the devil behind every bush so to speak.

There are for me considerable reasons even beyond the spiritual that I have concerns about many forms of alternative medicine but I do not think this thread is for that discussion and I do not want to take it there.

I simply have expressed my concerns because I do think it is important that people at least look into the possible spiritual implications of some of the stuff out there. Some of it simply cannot be explained outside of a spiritual realm and I think that is the stuff you should watch out for.

As to Yoga? Why not instead simply take 15 to 20 minutes a day and meditate on the things of God, If you feel better doing it cross-legged on a hard gym floor, I will leave that between you and God.


But make sure you are modestly dressed. ;)


Well yes. Form fitting clothes and yoga do not seem to go together to well. :) So in my mind that goes without saying.
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