Christianity and traditional medicine

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Wade wrote:Otherwise don't imply Christian's should serve only the world's system of conventional medicine
More specifically, the current convention upheld in the Western scientific approach. Quite ethnocentric.

Interesting explanations of how you differentiate between terminology.

I don't really ever use the term "alternative medicine", as I don't believe there's such a thing. Medicine is medicine. If it works, there is nothing "alternative" about it. People, especially in the West, have a woeful disconnect from hundreds of years of practical medicine, so they view the current practice in their culture as the "conventional". It's a bit bizarre to me.
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RZehr
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by RZehr »

Wade wrote:I want give some examples because this I believe is a subject where the language has been so confused especially those raised Mennonite, however I could be wrong and misunderstanding.

Natural medicine: We have Aloe Vera plants in our home that we use on cuts and burns.

Alternative medicine: Alternate to what? Conventional medicine is how I understand it. So when I had chronic yeast infections conventional medicine gave me creams and pills that only ever helped temporarily with symptoms. So I sought out alternative medicine. Which lead me to learn about candida albicans and so I stopped eating sugar and starchy foods as much as possible. Cured by alternative medicine.

Traditional medicine: My parents came by today and my mom suggested adding euchalyptus oil in our water pot that sits on our woodstove to help with moisture in the air, to help with our daughters stuffy nose. Herbal oil usage originated well before Christ.

This is an example of what natural, alternative, and traditional medicine means to me.

I am concerned that those against natural, alternative, and/or traditional medicine have been so busy watching the ditch on the other side of the road that they have driven into the other ditch...

These things are not witchcraft. And if they are please help me out in seeing it. Otherwise don't imply Christian's should serve only the world's system of conventional medicine and also give up Christ because of changing ones diet to being healthier.
I know of lots of Mennonites with various beliefs, I think none of them would have a problem with what you’ve described. I don’t think they are in the ditch because of fear of the occult. If they are in the ditch it is because they just don’t believe these natural remedies actually work, or not work as well as conventional medicine.

The problem is when people go farther than what you’ve described and then try to identify it as just something innocent or natural. They want it to be in the same category as what you described, but it isn’t.
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Valerie
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Valerie »

KingdomBuilder wrote:I believe that I read that priests would burn the resin of frankincense in the temples. Modern research confirms that breathing frankincense is psychoactive, and it works towards relieving feelings of depression/ anxiety. Pretty cool if you ask me! I don't give frankincense the credit, though- why should we stop at the creation when we know it's Creator??
We also see a few mentions of hyssop- from OT cleansings (including David) all the way to Jesus. Clearly God used hyssop as an ongoing symbol to portray purification and cleanness. Obviously the hyssop itself didn't cleanse, but the imagery is there.
Frankincense was one of the gifts offered to the Christ child by the Maggi- there was no coincidence there. It wasn't just used in the OT, when Malachi 1 was fulfilled in the New Testament Church, the frankincense is what is used in the Church today during worship & prayers to God- fulfilling Malachi 1- the incense being offered up to God in prayers & censing the Church-

Gold & Myrrh & Frankencense each had significance-
Still done today 2000 years later-
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Valerie
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Valerie »

Wade wrote:I want give some examples because this I believe is a subject where the language has been so confused especially those raised Mennonite, however I could be wrong and misunderstanding.

Natural medicine: We have Aloe Vera plants in our home that we use on cuts and burns.

Alternative medicine: Alternate to what? Conventional medicine is how I understand it. So when I had chronic yeast infections conventional medicine gave me creams and pills that only ever helped temporarily with symptoms. So I sought out alternative medicine. Which lead me to learn about candida albicans and so I stopped eating sugar and starchy foods as much as possible. Cured by alternative medicine.

Traditional medicine: My parents came by today and my mom suggested adding euchalyptus oil in our water pot that sits on our woodstove to help with moisture in the air, to help with our daughters stuffy nose. Herbal oil usage originated well before Christ.

This is an example of what natural, alternative, and traditional medicine means to me.

I am concerned that those against natural, alternative, and/or traditional medicine have been so busy watching the ditch on the other side of the road that they have driven into the other ditch...

These things are not witchcraft. And if they are please help me out in seeing it. Otherwise don't imply Christian's should serve only the world's system of conventional medicine and also give up Christ because of changing ones diet to being healthier.
Agree with this wholeheartedly-
Interesting- you mention euchalyptus- I have had a stuffy nose last few days, discovered a bottle of euchalyptus oil in my med cabinet (essential oils) I am not sure why I had bought it to begin with- but I dabbed a little around my nose & nasal passages opened right up-put in my pocket during work & helped a co-worker who was all stuffed up- he was happy!

I'm also a huge fan of aloe vera juice or gel to drink- it cured my acid reflux years ago. I could give countless testimonies about it- every time a customer buys Prevacid or Nexium or other meds (that can harm organs over time) to help with acid reflux, I want to get on my soap box about aloe vera-

There are shops in our Amish/Mennonite area that I've learned to go to for natural remedies before going to doctor. I KNOW these people seem to try to avoid conventional if they can & they do a pretty good job of it. I met an Amish man years ago who like you mentioned about your friend- studied health for over 20 years- he was amazing in his knowledge & had his own line of remedies (not pow-wow type) most were available but he did extensive research to come up with the products he found to be tried & true- so he said the only time he had to take any of his children (and he had several) to the doctor was when one of his sons got an infection from poison ivy. Other than that- they've been healthy & able to use more natural products over meds- his daughter got into the business and she was so interesting to talk to, her knowledge was exceptional to recommend products-

There is something to be said to endorse considering these God given treatments
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by KingdomBuilder »

http://hlf-team.com/fda-finds-majority- ... oy-powder/

Bad news for the Supermarket-herbalists :shock: :lol:
But really... Herbal capsules are very rare for traditional systems, but it's a perfect adaptation for those with a Western-medicine mindset. Pills are the norm, so an easy to swallow, tasteless capsule of an herb in dried form must be be effective way to take it, right? No..
If you come to herbal medicine with this kind of mindset, you'll find scams, lack of results, and disappointment.
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Hats Off
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Hats Off »

Roger Hertzler posted a very interesting article in "Plain News" with the title "Choose this Day Whom You Will Serve." In Paragraph 7 he says
The New Age movement, which is steeped in ..... ...... and anti-God philosophy, has worked its way into the lives of many professing Christians, including (I would add, especially) Anabaptist believers. This is true about a number of areas, but especially in the area of health care. Partly because of the cost, the corruption (Emphasis mine) and the side effects of conventional medicine many professing believers are turning to what they believe to be natural cures. Many of these remedies that are promoted as natural, however,turn out to in fact be supernatural (occultic), when examined in light of the available evidence.
The reason I come across sounding very negative about some of the non-traditional medicines or practices is because so many of the plainer Amish and Mennonites appear to be quite gullible and quick to fall for things that on closer examination are sometimes scams and sometimes very inappropriate. (I have to be careful with my choice of words so my filter does not block me again!) I have to dumb down what I say so can't put some of this is as strong a language as I would want to. Roger, a Mennonite (Pastor?) from RZehr's area of Oregon uses stronger words; some of what is considered natural is actually sin; sin that can be very binding.

Thanks to RZehr, I was in contact with Roger and he did give me permission to share his article so if anyone does not have access to the Plain News article, I will gladly forward it to you. I think it is must reading for anyone who is concerned about the dangers of some of the natural healing methods and practices.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by KingdomBuilder »

I raised this point earlier: if you look into the history of any herb (motherwort, lobelia, vervain, etc. etc.), you will find some occultic past and/or usage.
So where do we draw the line?
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Hats Off
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by Hats Off »

I accept chiropractic even though some chiropractors get into the bad stuff. I would accept the useage of herbs even though the same herbs have been used in bad stuff. I think you have to determine not so much the practise or the product as the practitioner and the use to which a product is put. When distinctly New Age terminology is used, I would advise staying away. My daughter wanted advice on a certain type of practise so I investigated the claims of the different practitioners and who they were associated with. Of three I checked for her two were definitely questionable; one taught yoga in addition to the treatment my daughter wanted and the other was in a building with some very questionable practitioners. The third one was the least expensive and I could not detect anything that would have put me off.
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lesterb
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by lesterb »

KingdomBuilder wrote:I raised this point earlier: if you look into the history of any herb (motherwort, lobelia, vervain, etc. etc.), you will find some occultic past and/or usage.
So where do we draw the line?
Lamp and Light Publishers published a book on this subject, which I think I have in my library somewhere. They go into great length concerning homeopathic treatment and chiropractors. What I think happens often in such cases is that they dig up old explanations about the treatment. The Chinese had no idea why chiropractic treatments worked, so they came up with what they considered a plausible explanation. Mennonites and fundamentalists of today grab that explanation and use it as "proof" of the relationship between occult practice and chiropractic treatments.

The same thing happens in many other situations. So an Indian witch doctor discovers that a certain plant can be brewed into a tea that helps a medical condition. It becomes a part of his magic occultic treatments. Now suppose that same witch doctor had stumbled onto penicillin. Would we now condemn penicillin as being occultic?

I know that occult is real. And I know that some of the Old Mennonites in the past got involved in some of that. But do we really have to find a fire behind every wood pile because of that? There is nothing inherently godly about modern medicine. It is really unfortunate when churches divide over these issues. In spite of what has been said in this thread, that does happen, and has happened even in our Western Fellowship, I believe.

I'm inclined to agree with the old Mennonite bishop who told me that what is most important is knowing your doctor and what he stands for. I didn't go to a herbalist to fix my fistula, I went to a surgeon. Maybe a nutritionist specializing in "natural" methods could help with my Krone's Disease. Or maybe Plexus would do it. But my battle with a fistula was scary enough that I think I'll stick with what I know works -- Remicade. But if someone wants to take the other route, that is fine with me. Where I have a problem is when these situations are viewed as spiritual issues. I remember discussing acupuncture with Dr Nolan Byler once (he's an old friend of mine) and he admitted that as an osteopath he uses the same points as they do, but uses pressure instead of needles. So why is the one wrong and the other okay? I'm not an expert at some of these things, but too often it seems to me that we are straining at a gnat and swallowing a camel.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Christianity and traditional medicine

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Hats Off wrote: I think you have to determine not so much the practise or the product as the practitioner and the use to which a product is put.
I agree. Me taking herbal medicine from someone who is a Pantheist or a worshiper of creation would be sin, but taking the same herbs from a neutral, non-spiritual, or (better yet) Christian source would not weigh my conscience.
I believe faith, conscience, and intention are the key things Christians should look at when looking at traditional medicine.
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