Internet Trolls on discussion groups

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
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steve-in-kville
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by steve-in-kville »

KingdomBuilder wrote:Have any CA's gotten into the private investigation business? I see possibilities... ;)
There were those years I spent in the CIA....
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Wayne in Maine »

steve-in-kville wrote:
KingdomBuilder wrote:Have any CA's gotten into the private investigation business? I see possibilities... ;)
There were those years I spent in the CIA....
Shhh... we're not supposed to talk about it!
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Valerie
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Valerie »

ohio jones wrote:
KingdomBuilder wrote:Have any CA's gotten into the private investigation business? I see possibilities... ;)
Well, we used to have the MennoDiscuss Board of Investigation (MDBI), and before that the MennoGoon[ie]s. At times it was more bluster than bloodhound, but once in a while serious sleuthing got done.
At what point does one find this kind of investigating worthy of such efforts & time?
When one feels they are a serious threat to the faith of people on this forum?
Slander is a serious sin, we must be careful-

Love bears all things, believes all things- (1 Corinthians 13)
I realize the Shepherds had to protect the sheep from wolves, because wolves eat sheep- at the point one is concerned that there may be a wolf trying to eat the sheep, i guess to me might warrant the time and effort?
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MaxPC
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by MaxPC »

Wayne in Maine wrote:
Neto wrote:It appears to me to be about a misunderstanding. Max, you said he liked your email address. It could easily sound like he started using it, when it is now clear (with your further responses) that he just used the same name as you do.
Indeed this other magnusfide not only likes Max's email handle, he even likes Max's name - that's how he has introduced himself and occasionally uses as his signature line!
There are a lot of Max's out there. Fide is Latin for "faith" so it tends to be popular. Frankly, I don't know about these others and it would be petty for me to care enough to spend days trying to hunt them down on such a trivial matter. If it bothers you, Wayne I have no control over that and I would not want to control your priorities. Some think Bootstrap is using you as a proxy to continue to harangue me. I have no control over that either and I don't want control over you or him. That said, I've answered your query and have nothing more to say on the matter since I am me, they are different people and that's the end of it.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by KingdomBuilder »

Some think Bootstrap is using you as a proxy to continue to harangue me.
We may need to call Catholic private investigative services. Surely that exists, right?


lightening the mood..
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Bootstrap
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Bootstrap »

Here's the troll problem as I see it: MN has become the main online forum for Plain Catholics, and there's a lot of evidence that Plain Catholics do not exist and that some of the things Max tells us about himself and the history of Plain Catholics are not true. When people notice, Max attacks whoever is pointing it out, suggests there is something wrong with them, claims we are just persecuting him, uses PMs to campaign against that person, and goes on telling the same stories. People quickly tire of the fight, and just want the fight to go away, Max takes advantage of that.

This problem never gets resolved, and it keeps boiling under the surface.

I suspect Wayne is thinking the easiest way to solve the problem is to find out who Max is and see if he lives the way he claims, has the credentials he claims, etc. That feels invasive to me. I once had someone to that to me in MD days - there were people who knew firsthand who I was, but this person did not, and he used the Internet to find out who I am, including my cell phone number. When I got over the initial shock, we went out for Barbeque together, and I would be happy to do that again if we are in the same place. (I tried, actually, a few days ago when I was at a conference where he lives, but that's another story.)
MaxPC wrote:Some think Bootstrap is using you as a proxy to continue to harangue me. I have no control over that either and I don't want control over you or him. That said, I've answered your query and have nothing more to say on the matter since I am me, they are different people and that's the end of it.
For what it's worth, Wayne did tell me he was going to do this, I told him I was concerned that this approach is too invasive (see above). And as far as I can tell, Wayne is not my proxy in any way. He is certainly not doing this at my urging. He is pretty good at thinking for himself. And Wayne and I are hardly the only people who have stumbled on things that seem to be false in what you say.
Valerie wrote:At what point does one find this kind of investigating worthy of such efforts & time?
When one feels they are a serious threat to the faith of people on this forum?
Slander is a serious sin, we must be careful-
I agree that slander is a serious sin, and that we must be careful. But what is slander depends on what is true, and when someone shows us pictures of German Baptists and Amish have captions claiming they are Plain Catholics, shows us pictures from an Amish open-air museum and claims it is a Plain Catholic home, tells us grand tales of a 100-year-old movement and is not willing to explain why the other histories of the Catholic Land Movement say it was quite different from what he describes and it died out completely, the right thing to do is to present what we see and ask if there is something we are missing. If the response is to take offense, attack the other person, and not address the questions, viciously slandering people in PMs ... that's not usually the response of someone who is telling the truth.

When someone comes to us and says "hey, look at who I am, and you have to believe whatever I say because I am the authority on this", then that person's identity really matters. Most people don't do that here. And in the world I live in, authorities don't ask people to accept what they say based on their personal authority, they provide evidence. But if they do claim to have some kind of credential, we may double check to make sure they have that credential.

I think Max wants to have it both ways. He wants to tell us many stories about himself, much more than anyone else does here, but he does not want us to know who he is. He could, for instance, tell someone like Ohio Jones or Lester or Robert enough information that they could verify things. Max wants to insist that he is the authority on things, but does not want to let us check his credentials. He wants to be free to say many things that seem not to be true, but to prevent other people from questioning what he says.

Or he could do what most of us do. Just don't make all those claims.
Valerie wrote:Love bears all things, believes all things- (1 Corinthians 13)
I realize the Shepherds had to protect the sheep from wolves, because wolves eat sheep- at the point one is concerned that there may be a wolf trying to eat the sheep, i guess to me might warrant the time and effort?
Love is not infinitely gullible. And I can't think of a lot of really good reasons for spinning some of these stories. And I don't think this kind of trolling is good for the atmosphere here.
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GaryK
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by GaryK »

Bootstrap wrote: ...and when someone shows us pictures of German Baptists and Amish have captions claiming they are Plain Catholics, shows us pictures from an Amish open-air museum and claims it is a Plain Catholic home,...
Honest question here. You keep bringing up the above point. Who posted those photos and who made the claim it is a Plain Catholic home? Was it Max?
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Bootstrap
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Bootstrap »

GaryK wrote:
Bootstrap wrote: ...and when someone shows us pictures of German Baptists and Amish have captions claiming they are Plain Catholics, shows us pictures from an Amish open-air museum and claims it is a Plain Catholic home,...
Honest question here. You keep bringing up the above point. Who posted those photos and who made the claim it is a Plain Catholic home? Was it Max?
Max points to that site in his signature, and often steers people to it as the place to go if they want to know about Plain Catholics. On MennoDiscuss, he insisted that a picture from the Amish Home and Farm is a house of Plain Catholics he knows in Tennessee. He has told similar stories about some of these other pictures. If need be, I can probably pull up those posts from the archives (this takes time and effort).

It would be really helpful to hear Max admit that there are pictures on that site that are clearly not Plain Catholics. And that some of the history given on that site is not true.
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GaryK
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by GaryK »

Bootstrap wrote:
GaryK wrote:
Bootstrap wrote: ...and when someone shows us pictures of German Baptists and Amish have captions claiming they are Plain Catholics, shows us pictures from an Amish open-air museum and claims it is a Plain Catholic home,...
Honest question here. You keep bringing up the above point. Who posted those photos and who made the claim it is a Plain Catholic home? Was it Max?
Max points to that site in his signature, and often steers people to it as the place to go if they want to know about Plain Catholics. On MennoDiscuss, he insisted that a picture from the Amish Home and Farm is a house of Plain Catholics he knows in Tennessee. He has told similar stories about some of these other pictures. If need be, I can probably pull up those posts from the archives (this takes time and effort).

It would be really helpful to hear Max admit that there are pictures on that site that are clearly not Plain Catholics. And that some of the history given on that site is not true.
I just looked at his signature and I don't see the link to that website. Are you saying he did at one point? Can you point me to some posts where he has steered people to this website?
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Bootstrap
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Bootstrap »

GaryK wrote:I just looked at his signature and I don't see the link to that website. Are you saying he did at one point? Can you point me to some posts where he has steered people to this website?
I'm sorry, I meant his profile.

You can see the website in the member's list here:
Screen Shot 2017-10-19 at 2.13.47 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-10-19 at 2.13.47 PM.png (22.91 KiB) Viewed 304 times
It is also the link you get to from the "visit website" link in his profile:
Screen Shot 2017-10-19 at 2.15.56 PM.png
Screen Shot 2017-10-19 at 2.15.56 PM.png (49.34 KiB) Viewed 304 times
Here's the latest example where he suggests people contact Plain Catholics through the website:
MaxPC wrote:Those who are genuinely interested in the truth are mature enough to contact me and the Plain Catholics directly as they have always done. Those who are simply trying to stir trouble and gossip have no interest in living a life of authentic Christian discipleship and nothing I say will change that. They will simply ignore reason and continue to twist and manipulate the truth, just as has happened to Anabaptists and other followers of Christ down through the ages. And just as assuredly, God will guide us and protect us. If folks need more info, they know where to find me here. Or they can talk directly to the PCs answering questions coming into the website. God bless you.
This is classic Max. Divert from the facts, attack the motivation of the people who point out that things are not adding up, claim to be persecuted, and don't answer the questions.

If anyone has managed to talk to "the PCs answering questions coming into the website" and can provide evidence about these things, I'm all ears.
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