Internet Trolls on discussion groups

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
Valerie
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Valerie »

Bootstrap wrote:
GaryK wrote:I just looked at his signature and I don't see the link to that website. Are you saying he did at one point? Can you point me to some posts where he has steered people to this website?
I'm sorry, I meant his profile.

You can see the website in the member's list here:

Screen Shot 2017-10-19 at 2.13.47 PM.png

It is also the link you get to from the "visit website" link in his profile:

Screen Shot 2017-10-19 at 2.15.56 PM.png

Here's the latest example where he suggests people contact Plain Catholics through the website:
MaxPC wrote:Those who are genuinely interested in the truth are mature enough to contact me and the Plain Catholics directly as they have always done. Those who are simply trying to stir trouble and gossip have no interest in living a life of authentic Christian discipleship and nothing I say will change that. They will simply ignore reason and continue to twist and manipulate the truth, just as has happened to Anabaptists and other followers of Christ down through the ages. And just as assuredly, God will guide us and protect us. If folks need more info, they know where to find me here. Or they can talk directly to the PCs answering questions coming into the website. God bless you.
This is classic Max. Divert from the facts, attack the motivation of the people who point out that things are not adding up, claim to be persecuted, and don't answer the questions.

If anyone has managed to talk to "the PCs answering questions coming into the website" and can provide evidence about these things, I'm all ears.
We frequent the largest Amish community in the world- & I have never seen an Amish home built like that one- they are always white plain homes-the inside could have been copied after Amish style- it's easy to copy those in one's desire to be plain-

I wouldn't assume that just because there are similarities means the pictures are fake either- many people mistake the Mormon cult FLDS in appearance to Mennonites- but they are two completely different religions-
I saw some lace doilies in the picture- the reality is too, when I was a young girl, the Catholics wore those same lace doily type veils on their heads- (I am not sure if the 'shape' was the same but as soon as I saw Mennonites wearing them, my mind took me back to Catholic neighbors who wore those in the 60's)

Certainly Max is not hiding anything- he puts it right on his member i.d.- I don't consider that sneaky-

My other question is if someone used to be Lutheran, (which he claims he never was) why would that have been necessary to share? I think we have all had our own spiritual journey- Max hasn't seemed to make his time here all about his own spiritual journey- but if he was ever Lutheran I don't find it particularly strange that he hadn't mentioned it (however I believe him, I think to admit one is Catholic on an Anabaptist site is much more offensive to you then to admit you had been Lutheran, agree?
Last edited by Valerie on Thu Oct 19, 2017 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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GaryK
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by GaryK »

Bootstrap wrote: If anyone has managed to talk to "the PCs answering questions coming into the website" and can provide evidence about these things, I'm all ears.
Have you tried?
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Bootstrap
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Bootstrap »

GaryK wrote:
Bootstrap wrote: If anyone has managed to talk to "the PCs answering questions coming into the website" and can provide evidence about these things, I'm all ears.
Have you tried?
Yes, several times over the years.
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GaryK
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by GaryK »

Bootstrap wrote:
GaryK wrote:
Bootstrap wrote: If anyone has managed to talk to "the PCs answering questions coming into the website" and can provide evidence about these things, I'm all ears.
Have you tried?
Yes, several times over the years.
Did you get any answers?
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Hats Off
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Hats Off »

I believe that is the frustration - Boot has tried as have others - with no real success.
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Valerie
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Valerie »

Hats Off wrote:I believe that is the frustration - Boot has tried as have others - with no real success.
I have not tried to contact them, have you? If so, maybe it would help- people want Max to be forthright and so maybe each person can share what they asked in their contacting plain catholics- what exactly did you ask them? I think they make it clear why they have put the ability to contact those 'with interest' - perhaps they can detect a lack of sincere interest in their faith and way they practice it-

So maybe it would help if each person was forthright in sharing 'here' like is expected of Max- exactly what they said when they contacted Plain Catholics, and then what was the response (or lack therof)- so we can get a better understanding of why you may or may not be getting replies. I cannot imagine Max would post the website 'here' if there was no one who was there to answer seekers.
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Wayne in Maine
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Wayne in Maine »

I asked in the OP if we should care.

If MennoNet is to be a forum marked by authenticity and integrity, then we should care. If, on the other hand, MennoNet is going to be just another chat group full of fake news and irrelevance by spammers and trolls having nothing to do with Mennonites then it is a waste of time, and anyone who cares at all about discussing serious matters with brothers and sisters in the faith will simply not bother with it.

That is why, after doing a little research into "Plain Catholics" I posted what I did about Max. Max ranks third in posts on this discussion group. I don't know if, as Boot says, he (or she) is using it as the main online forum for Plain Catholics, but he/she sure posts a lot on this forum and much of what he asserts has no credibility.

There is more evidence that Max is posting under a false persona with false credential about a fictitious religious group. Because Maxfide (and some other related accounts) posted on a lot of Yahoo groups (including one I moderated) and some public Catholic forums there is a "trail" that suggests with very great certainty that our Max is what we would call an internet "troll", a nice friendly, amiable one but a troll nonetheless. I sincerely hope that Max will repent and choose to follow Jesus without guile. If he/she chooses to remain Roman Catholic then that is between Max and his/her church and confessor. I regards to MennoNet I think we the moderators should consider establishing a policy on trolls and on people posting under false pretense.
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GaryK
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by GaryK »

Wayne in Maine wrote:I asked in the OP if we should care.

If MennoNet is to be a forum marked by authenticity and integrity, then we should care. If, on the other hand, MennoNet is going to be just another chat group full of fake news and irrelevance by spammers and trolls having nothing to do with Mennonites then it is a waste of time, and anyone who cares at all about discussing serious matters with brothers and sisters in the faith will simply not bother with it.

That is why, after doing a little research into "Plain Catholics" I posted what I did about Max. Max ranks third in posts on this discussion group. I don't know if, as Boot says, he (or she) is using it as the main online forum for Plain Catholics, but he/she sure posts a lot on this forum and much of what he asserts has no credibility.

There is more evidence that Max is posting under a false persona with false credential about a fictitious religious group. Because Maxfide (and some other related accounts) posted on a lot of Yahoo groups (including one I moderated) and some public Catholic forums there is a "trail" that suggests with very great certainty that our Max is what we would call an internet "troll", a nice friendly, amiable one but a troll nonetheless. I sincerely hope that Max will repent and choose to follow Jesus without guile. If he/she chooses to remain Roman Catholic then that is between Max and his/her church and confessor. I regards to MennoNet I think we the moderators should consider establishing a policy on trolls and on people posting under false pretense.
It does appear that there is a lot about Max & the PCs that doesn't add up. I agree that Max should be more open about things. But MN's motto is "Where Mennonites and others connect". I would be interested in hearing what damage or harm you and Boot feel Max's involvement on MN has caused to MN or serious minded members. I found your description "a nice friendly, amiable one but a troll nonetheless" interesting.

At what point does this whole matter become more damaging to MN than the "troll" himself?
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Josh
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Josh »

Okay, so speaking up about lying and deception is worse than the lying and deception itself?
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Bootstrap
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Re: Internet Trolls on discussion groups

Post by Bootstrap »

Wayne in Maine wrote:If MennoNet is to be a forum marked by authenticity and integrity, then we should care. If, on the other hand, MennoNet is going to be just another chat group full of fake news and irrelevance by spammers and trolls having nothing to do with Mennonites then it is a waste of time, and anyone who cares at all about discussing serious matters with brothers and sisters in the faith will simply not bother with it.
People often come here to learn about plain Christians, and the group they will learn most about is a fictitious one. When we discuss any of the plain Anabaptist groups, we can question the history together to find our best understanding of what actually happened, but Plain Catholics are the one group we cannot question because Max might be offended.

Even when we discuss our own history, such as the Swiss Brethren, Max's intent seems to be to figure out which group of Anabaptists is seen as most righteous, then tell us that Plain Catholics are just like them. We wind up pointing out that the Swiss Brethren were not killing other believers. We wind up having discussions about whether Catholics teach that infants should be baptized, and it turns into a debate - when this is quite clear in the Catechism and Canon Law. This makes it hard to discuss things that belong to our own history.

And we are acting like a dysfunctional family where everybody knows that one of the members is an alcoholic but that's something that simply must not be said. The truth is off limits. Let's all just be nice and not notice. Let's all agree to be in denial - that kind of denial always has consequences. At the same time, Max uses PMs to try to persuade people that anyone who notices these falsehoods is not a good Christian, say he is just being persecuted for his strong faith, and to proclaim his own maturity and righteousness. I have seem some of these PMs, they are pretty toxic. This is one of the reasons I choose to do the vast majority of my communication in public and not in PMs, and I'm pretty sure I'm the same person in both.

Sometimes I wonder if it would be helpful to shut off Max's PM permissions to force discussion into public.
Wayne in Maine wrote:That is why, after doing a little research into "Plain Catholics" I posted what I did about Max. Max ranks third in posts on this discussion group. I don't know if, as Boot says, he (or she) is using it as the main online forum for Plain Catholics, but he/she sure posts a lot on this forum and much of what he asserts has no credibility.
When I say he is using it as the main online forum, I mean this: they stopped posting on Catholic Forums, perhaps because a lot of people did not believe what they were saying, moderators stepped in saying there was too much uncharitable posting, etc. The two Wikipedia articles on them were removed because they were deemed not credible. Their website has not been changed much at all. By far, the largest source of "information" on Plain Catholics on the Web, except for the one website, is MN.
Wayne in Maine wrote:There is more evidence that Max is posting under a false persona with false credential about a fictitious religious group. Because Maxfide (and some other related accounts) posted on a lot of Yahoo groups (including one I moderated) and some public Catholic forums there is a "trail" that suggests with very great certainty that our Max is what we would call an internet "troll", a nice friendly, amiable one but a troll nonetheless. I sincerely hope that Max will repent and choose to follow Jesus without guile. If he/she chooses to remain Roman Catholic then that is between Max and his/her church and confessor. I regards to MennoNet I think we the moderators should consider establishing a policy on trolls and on people posting under false pretense.
Thought experiment.

Suppose I were to claim to represent some Mennonite group nobody had heard of, with pointers to a website that had pictures of Amish and German Brethren and images from various Amish museums, telling tales that seemed to be false, taking offense when someone notices the discrepancies and refusing to answer questions. Would we treat that me the same way we have treated Max?

I doubt it.
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