Response to Sudsy on Max

When it just doesn't fit anywhere else.
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JimFoxvog
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by JimFoxvog »

I must admit I get tired of hearing the same things from you about Max, even though I suspect you are correct.
Bootstrap wrote:
GaryK wrote:Stop fighting. :)
I do want to discuss facts, I don't want to fight. What guidelines would you suggest?
How about a saved text that you insert where needed:
For newcomers, I question whether Plain Catholics exist. See [post reference].
Similarly
For newcomers, I question Max's authority in this area. See [post refernce].
Then continue discussing facts without referring to Max.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by Bootstrap »

JimFoxvog wrote:How about a saved text that you insert where needed:
For newcomers, I question whether Plain Catholics exist. See [post reference].
Similarly
For newcomers, I question Max's authority in this area. See [post refernce].
Then continue discussing facts without referring to Max.
Interesting idea. Let me think about this.
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KingdomBuilder
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by KingdomBuilder »

I like Jim's input and idea.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by Bootstrap »

KingdomBuilder wrote:I like Jim's input and idea.
Here are some things I like about it. It can point to an existing explanation without repeating myself, and Max could add information to the thread it points to if my understanding was flawed, so we can correct any misunderstandings over time.

And I could have that at the end of a post, it doesn't have to be in giant screaming letters.

So I think I will see if I can do something along these lines next time.
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lesterb
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by lesterb »

Bootstrap wrote:
KingdomBuilder wrote:I like Jim's input and idea.
And I could have that at the end of a post, it doesn't have to be in giant screaming letters.
Like permanently in your signature? :yawn:

I prefer to put into a discussion what I personally believe, then leave it at that. Like Neto, I used to feel obligated to set the record straight. And I wish there was still a way to do that. But I no longer have the time to do that, and it's useless anyway.

So my suggestion is, rather than digging away at another person, asking for sources and challenging them to an intellectual duel, just say your thing and go your way. To me that seems to fit for nonresistant Christians.

If people start turning this forum into an EO, Catholic, or Calvinistic proselyting playground, then I'll just excuse myself. Actually, I probably won't excuse myself, I'll just vanish. It troubles me the amount of false doctrine that is confidently peddled on here, but it isn't up to me to fix it.
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temporal1
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by temporal1 »

GaryK wrote: Stop fighting. :)
do you have a fellowship newsletter or any way i might read more from you, and the work you do? PM or email is fine, if you prefer. i receive a couple of different member newsletters, i enjoy reading them. (and, lester has a blog thread on this forum for members to share their blog info.) :)
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GaryK
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by GaryK »

temporal1 wrote:
GaryK wrote: Stop fighting. :)
do you have a fellowship newsletter or any way i might read more from you, and the work you do? PM or email is fine, if you prefer. i receive a couple of different member newsletters, i enjoy reading them. (and, lester has a blog thread on this forum for members to share their blog info.) :)
We don't. I'm not a writer like Lester. You're welcome to come visit us. :)
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Bootstrap
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by Bootstrap »

lesterb wrote:Like permanently in your signature? :yawn:
Definitely not.
lesterb wrote:I prefer to put into a discussion what I personally believe, then leave it at that. Like Neto, I used to feel obligated to set the record straight. And I wish there was still a way to do that. But I no longer have the time to do that, and it's useless anyway.

So my suggestion is, rather than digging away at another person, asking for sources and challenging them to an intellectual duel, just say your thing and go your way. To me that seems to fit for nonresistant Christians.
So ... how is that different from what Jim suggested? It sounds like you are implying that I should mention, once, that I can't find any evidence that Plain Catholics exist, then leave it. Obviously, Max will then repeat his claims and his stories over and over again, and any doubt will be forgotten. Promoting these falsehoods may very well be the main reason he is here. He is one of the most frequent posters.

Jesus repeated himself frequently with the Pharisees. Paul repeated himself frequently in his letters, as did John. Sometimes, correcting a falsehood once is not enough. I don't think Jesus taught a kind of nonresistance that does not speak up.
lesterb wrote:If people start turning this forum into an EO, Catholic, or Calvinistic proselyting playground, then I'll just excuse myself. Actually, I probably won't excuse myself, I'll just vanish. It troubles me the amount of false doctrine that is confidently peddled on here, but it isn't up to me to fix it.
People have already tried. Repeatedly. And if some people had not spoken up, I suspect you would have excused yourself long ago.

If we want the CM version of nonresistance, we probably need a CM version of separation as well, a safe space where we aren't constantly confronted by these things. That means a moderated forum - and the CM version would be very restricted. Another option would be to have the level of moderation found on most forums. I don't think Robert wants to go there.

If we don't want that, I think we're stuck with the friction of speaking up. And it gets repetitive. The responses get repetitive because the false claims are so repetitive.
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lesterb
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by lesterb »

Bootstrap wrote:... It sounds like you are implying that I should mention, once, that I can't find any evidence that Plain Catholics exist, then leave it.
That would be the opposite extreme, I suppose. But I think that most people on the board feel that you have been running a vendetta against Max, at least at times. He can hardly make a statement without you jumping on him.

Along with that, I should say that there is reason for some of your concerns. But you've given those challenges so often that it tends to get just as tiresome as Max's constant insistence that the there are "Anabaptist" Catholics. I've met plain Catholics, but they weren't part of anything like Max talks about.

From an accedemic perspective, I'm interested in Catholics, just like I am in Mormons. From a Christian perspective I'm interested in serving Christ, not theology. So I soon drop out when the battle starts.
Bootstrap wrote:Obviously, Max will then repeat his claims and his stories over and over again, and any doubt will be forgotten. Promoting these falsehoods may very well be the main reason he is here. He is one of the most frequent posters.
This is interesting because I remember in one of his very first quotes on MennoDiscuss he told us that they limit internet use and he won't be able to post a lot. That seems to have fallen by the wayside.
Bootstrap wrote: Jesus repeated himself frequently with the Pharisees. Paul repeated himself frequently in his letters, as did John. Sometimes, correcting a falsehood once is not enough. I don't think Jesus taught a kind of nonresistance that does not speak up.
lesterb wrote:If people start turning this forum into an EO, Catholic, or Calvinistic proselyting playground, then I'll just excuse myself. Actually, I probably won't excuse myself, I'll just vanish. It troubles me the amount of false doctrine that is confidently peddled on here, but it isn't up to me to fix it.
People have already tried. Repeatedly. And if some people had not spoken up, I suspect you would have excused yourself long ago.

If we want the CM version of nonresistance, we probably need a CM version of separation as well, a safe space where we aren't constantly confronted by these things. That means a moderated forum - and the CM version would be very restricted. Another option would be to have the level of moderation found on most forums. I don't think Robert wants to go there.

If we don't want that, I think we're stuck with the friction of speaking up. And it gets repetitive. The responses get repetitive because the false claims are so repetitive.
And so the fight goes on, because no one will back down. I guess I don't know the answer.
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Bootstrap
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Re: Response to Sudsy on Max

Post by Bootstrap »

lesterb wrote:
Bootstrap wrote:... It sounds like you are implying that I should mention, once, that I can't find any evidence that Plain Catholics exist, then leave it.
That would be the opposite extreme, I suppose. But I think that most people on the board feel that you have been running a vendetta against Max, at least at times. He can hardly make a statement without you jumping on him.

Along with that, I should say that there is reason for some of your concerns. But you've given those challenges so often that it tends to get just as tiresome as Max's constant insistence that the there are "Anabaptist" Catholics.
I don't want that either, of course. I'm trying to find the balance. And for me, finding that balance is hard.
lesterb wrote:I've met plain Catholics, but they weren't part of anything like Max talks about.
Did they call themselves plain Catholics? Can you say more?
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