Recently on a MDS worksite, I met a group of young men. I was sure I would know their parents or grandparents so I started asking them who they are. The first one was my cousin's son so we had notes to compare. The second one answered "Ich bin an obgegangna Englisha" (I am a former Englisher) which was his way of handling the situation with a bit of humour. I was slow to answer - probably with something like "Oh." I find I would rather not ask any more questions right away for fear of making a bigger mistake. After I get to know a little more about a person, I will be more ready to converse.ohio jones wrote:That's not always the case; I find some conservatives quite willing to discuss spiritual things. Of course if you're unknown and perhaps visibly not quite in their category there's going to be some background questions as a result of natural curiosity.KingdomBuilder wrote:Most of the questions are centered on the past/ "background"... little is asked about more current spiritual things. Seems like the focus is really on identifying differences in my own and their own experience.
My last name and occupation are rare nonexistent among Plain people. I don't mind if they move on to another subject after asking about those, but an awkward silence or an "I see" (when they obviously don't) isn't helpful.
Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
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- Josh
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Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
I have a German-sounding last name, so often when someone meets me and asks my name they ask me to repeat my last name once or twice, with a quizzed look on their face as they try to figure out which Mennonite family name that is.
Interestingly, Holdemans tend to introduce themselves by last name a little bit less (particularly if they're of Netherlands Dutch instead of Swiss background), and Apostolic Christians don't really introduce by last names at all - they just use first names like the rest of North Americans do.
I have become accustomed to introducing myself with my last name and asking someone who says just his first name what his last name. I have to make sure to remember not to do this in non-plain business settings since it is very, very offputting to non-plain people to do that.
Interestingly, Holdemans tend to introduce themselves by last name a little bit less (particularly if they're of Netherlands Dutch instead of Swiss background), and Apostolic Christians don't really introduce by last names at all - they just use first names like the rest of North Americans do.
I have become accustomed to introducing myself with my last name and asking someone who says just his first name what his last name. I have to make sure to remember not to do this in non-plain business settings since it is very, very offputting to non-plain people to do that.
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Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
I've noticed that many Americans just give their first name and I often just use my first name when I introduce myself to non-plain people but I wasn't aware it was "offputting" to ask them their last name.Josh wrote:Apostolic Christians don't really introduce by last names at all - they just use first names like the rest of North Americans do.
I have become accustomed to introducing myself with my last name and asking someone who says just his first name what his last name. I have to make sure to remember not to do this in non-plain business settings since it is very, very offputting to non-plain people to do that.
Most American's I've met also refer to "The Eby's" rather than "Ernie's" when referring to our family. Is referring to, "The Eby's" unfamiliar to some segments of America?
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The old woodcutter spoke again. “It is impossible to talk with you. You always draw conclusions. Life is so vast, yet you judge all of life with one page or one word. You see only a fragment. Unless you know the whole story, how can you judge?"
- Josh
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Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
It's actually outright rude - it's basically asking someone you just met for personal information that isn't quite appropriate to be asking for.Ernie wrote:I've noticed that many Americans just give their first name and I often just use my first name when I introduce myself to non-plain people but I wasn't aware it was "offputting" to ask them their last name.
I don't expect plain people to ever actually change this though. I just try to remember to "detect" with whom I'm speaking, if they seem plain, expect a last name, if they don't seem plain, expect just a first name.
The standard way to speak in America, Canada, and Australia to refer to someone's whole family is to call someone "the Eby's". "Let's go to the Eby's."Most American's I've met also refer to "The Eby's" rather than "Ernie's" when referring to our family. Is referring to, "The Eby's" unfamiliar to some segments of America?
Plain people would say "Let's go to Ernie's" or, if there are a lot people called Ernie, "Let's go to Ernie Eby's". If a non-plain person heard that, they would think that I was going to visit just Ernie, not his whole family. Or sometimes a plain person might say "Let's go to Eby's", but they'd never say "Let's go to the Eby's".
Another thing is you never really hear plain people refer to someone as Mrs. Eby, etc. The only place I see formal address like that is in a school setting.
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Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
In my experience with non-plain business settings, people almost always give me their first and last names at the initial introduction. From then on it's usually first names, unless there's more than one in that context with the same first name, but the last name is always present in written or electronic communication. If they didn't state their last name I might not ask, but would certainly think it odd unless I don't expect to see them again.Josh wrote:It's actually outright rude - it's basically asking someone you just met for personal information that isn't quite appropriate to be asking for.Ernie wrote:I've noticed that many Americans just give their first name and I often just use my first name when I introduce myself to non-plain people but I wasn't aware it was "offputting" to ask them their last name.
I don't expect plain people to ever actually change this though. I just try to remember to "detect" with whom I'm speaking, if they seem plain, expect a last name, if they don't seem plain, expect just a first name.
In plain or semi-plain settings, if someone doesn't provide a last name I would assume it's Yoder.
There are too many people with the same last name to do that; "Mrs. Yoder" doesn't narrow it down very much. What really tickles me is to hear something like "Barb of Jonas's" or, even better, "Jonas Barb." Anyone using those forms (around here at least) almost certainly has Amish grandparents.Josh wrote:Another thing is you never really hear plain people refer to someone as Mrs. Eby, etc.
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I grew up around Indiana, You grew up around Galilee; And if I ever really do grow up, I wanna grow up to be just like You -- Rich Mullins
I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
I am a Christian and my name is Pilgram; I'm on a journey, but I'm not alone -- NewSong, slightly edited
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Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
My thoughts on it (which clearly reflect my family's thoughts) is that it is a bit rude or, at the least, nosey. It's often seen as an attempt to "figure out" people based on their associations and relatives.It's actually outright rude - it's basically asking someone you just met for personal information that isn't quite appropriate to be asking for.
Generally, the older the person asking is, the less rude it comes across.
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Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
Indeed.KingdomBuilder wrote:My thoughts on it (which clearly reflect my family's thoughts) is that it is a bit rude or, at the least, nosey. It's often seen as an attempt to "figure out" people based on their associations and relatives.It's actually outright rude - it's basically asking someone you just met for personal information that isn't quite appropriate to be asking for.
Generally, the older the person asking is, the less rude it comes across.
Regions of the USA vary on this in my experience. Where one area may only use the last name (eg the Stewarts) others might just say the first names (eg Tom & Sally). We're adaptable
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Max (Plain Catholic)
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Mt 24:35
Proverbs 18:2 A fool does not delight in understanding but only in revealing his own mind.
1 Corinthians 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is folly with God
Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
That's interesting. I've never really thought about it being rude to ask someone's last name, but I can see what Josh is saying.MaxPC wrote:Indeed.KingdomBuilder wrote:My thoughts on it (which clearly reflect my family's thoughts) is that it is a bit rude or, at the least, nosey. It's often seen as an attempt to "figure out" people based on their associations and relatives.It's actually outright rude - it's basically asking someone you just met for personal information that isn't quite appropriate to be asking for.
Generally, the older the person asking is, the less rude it comes across.
Regions of the USA vary on this in my experience. Where one area may only use the last name (eg the Stewarts) others might just say the first names (eg Tom & Sally). We're adaptable
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Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
Some of that has made my head spin but in a way I love it because it is unique to the Amish (& Mennonite?) I love John Schmid's song about their names & relations- when he sings it, they just laugh! But it did take me awhile to get used to- I used to read the Budget and enjoyed the sections where one person from the community, would write a weekly report on the community and this is where I also saw a lot of that type of name game.ohio jones wrote:In my experience with non-plain business settings, people almost always give me their first and last names at the initial introduction. From then on it's usually first names, unless there's more than one in that context with the same first name, but the last name is always present in written or electronic communication. If they didn't state their last name I might not ask, but would certainly think it odd unless I don't expect to see them again.Josh wrote:It's actually outright rude - it's basically asking someone you just met for personal information that isn't quite appropriate to be asking for.Ernie wrote:I've noticed that many Americans just give their first name and I often just use my first name when I introduce myself to non-plain people but I wasn't aware it was "offputting" to ask them their last name.
I don't expect plain people to ever actually change this though. I just try to remember to "detect" with whom I'm speaking, if they seem plain, expect a last name, if they don't seem plain, expect just a first name.
In plain or semi-plain settings, if someone doesn't provide a last name I would assume it's Yoder.
There are too many people with the same last name to do that; "Mrs. Yoder" doesn't narrow it down very much. What really tickles me is to hear something like "Barb of Jonas's" or, even better, "Jonas Barb." Anyone using those forms (around here at least) almost certainly has Amish grandparents.Josh wrote:Another thing is you never really hear plain people refer to someone as Mrs. Eby, etc.
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Re: Conversing with Conservative Anabaptists
I've met a 4 of our new neighbors (one just this morning) and they all told me their first and last names when we met.
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