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Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:30 am**

"He shall also judge those who give rise to schisms, who are destitute of the love of God, and who look to their own special advantage rather than to the unity of the Church; and who for trifling reasons, or any kind of reason which occurs to them, cut in pieces and divide the great and glorious body of Christ, and so far as in them lies, [positively] destroy it,—men who prate of peace while they give rise to war, and do in truth strain out a gnat, but swallow a camel. For no reformation of so great importance can be effected by them, as will compensate for the mischief arising from their schism." --St Irenaeus of Lyons, 2nd Century

It helped me understand a lot about how the Church was trying to stay together, even while adressing the various heresies that would arise, and the potentional those heresies had to divide the Church- even if schisms did arise, it must have been a very grievous event-

We seem so far from that mindset today about it-

Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:39 pm**

I don't think we want to go back either to the evil ways of torture that the church used on heretics. How this was not considered heresy to the teachings of Jesus, I have no idea.

Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:14 pm**

Sudsy wrote:I don't think we want to go back either to the evil ways of torture that the church used on heretics. How this was not considered heresy to the teachings of Jesus, I have no idea.

Not all are Israel, who are called Israel- the Jews were never 'guiltless' within, nor was the Church-
Nor would the entire "Church" be to blame for what happened in a particular era in a particular area-any more than you would blame all of Israel for what some in Israel had done, might you agree with that?
But Schisms have almost destroyed the Church's witness- which is why it was taken so serious-
Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Posted: **Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:44 pm**

Valerie wrote:
Sudsy wrote:I don't think we want to go back either to the evil ways of torture that the church used on heretics. How this was not considered heresy to the teachings of Jesus, I have no idea.
Not all are Israel, who are called Israel- the Jews were never 'guiltless' within, nor was the Church-
Nor would the entire "Church" be to blame for what happened in a particular era in a particular area-any more than you would blame all of Israel for what some in Israel had done, might you agree with that?

Agreed.

But Schisms have almost destroyed the Church's witness- which is why it was taken so serious-
Galatians 5
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

But as the scripture says "And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it." Regardless of all these schisms that have resulted in divisions that man has made in Christ's Church, Christ still has His Church based on His selection, not ours. The "gates of hell", I believe represent satan's attacks to thwart Christ building His Church but regardless of what we see, it will not work. Christ will have His Church and His Bride. So, since I am to walk by faith and not by sight, I need to trust that God is still at work building His Church regardless how man has allowed satan to disrupt that building wherever and whenever he can. And often satan has enticed us to sin via our fleshly weaknesses. This battle will continue until He returns. Thats how I'm currently looking at it.

MennoNet.com

St. Irenaeus on Schisms-

St. Irenaeus on Schisms-

Re: St. Irenaeus on Schisms-

Re: St. Irenaeus on Schisms-

Re: St. Irenaeus on Schisms-