Sudsy wrote:I don't think we will settle the issue here that has been around for centuries regarding restrictions by gender on God furthering His Kingdom through His people. I think I have stated why allowing unrestricted WIML is not an issue for me when selecting a church and provided a link for scriptural support of that view. Others here seem to see this as a drift into worldly thinking and some appear to treat it as a sin unto death. For me, this issue and active gays in ministry are two very different situations. As a 'pro' moving to a more 'liberal' church I would say it may allow one to sooner develop personal convictions and to accept how others work out their salvation that is different from how I do it.
I am not sure Sudsy, how one could read Scripture about this issue with women as 'leaders' . Is it a coincidence, that the very morning I shared 1 Timothy 2 on this question with you- that while driving home for lunch, this very same question came up on Christian radio in my 7 minute drive? This former pastor- who does Bible Q & A on Moody Radio- received this question in those few minutes I was listening and he answered with the same exact passage of Scripture- BUT he went further than I did to emphasize
You can have a listen here: (I think you'd enjoy this Bible Q & A)
https://www.moodyradio.org/programs/ope ... open-line/
The caller brings up the exact question you do- was it a 'cultural' thing back then?
This question is brought up at the end of the hour of Q & A
SO- lets look at the passage again:
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13
For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14
And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
The pastor brings up not only was the 'woman' deceived but the order of creation is in place- these 2 aspects are timeless.
So what do we have? The Church's 2000 year history, where a woman was never a pastor- until 'lately'- this does not deny that women have gifts, but they are suseptable to deception- AND their role as 'authoratative'- these do not change with time- and as others have brought up, these denominations that have allowed it, are now going astray in other Biblical areas-
I certainly agree with this- I wouldn't attend a Church with a female pastor because she is already questioning, like Eve did, "Hath God indeed said"? the serpent deceived Eve in this manner, which is why Apostle Paul brings this up-when we question Apostolic doctrine about this issue, we are doing the same thing Eve did- 'questioning if God really said this'- Well, yes He did, as Apostle Paul spoke by the Holy Spirit-
Your 2nd point about the same people who teach against female pastors teach to baptize by pouring which you see as disobedience-because Baptism is by immersion-
I read recently a question by an Orthodox Christian who asked if he should be baptized 'again' because the first time, he was not 'immersed' but the water was poured on him.
As strongly as the Orthodox teach about immersion being the true 'way' of baptizing since the beginning- they have made allowances for pouring- as Boot brought up- the first century Didache allows for pouring when immersion isn't convenient- the replies to this Orthodox Christian questioning his own pouring baptism was that DEFINITELY his baptism was valid because it was 'in the name of the Father, Son & Holy Spirit', and even as strict as the ORthodox is about baptism- they will allow pouring and does not nullify one's baptism- it is valid, and not disobedient according to the 2000 history of the Church. Not the preferable way, but also not discounted.